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BoraTas

Major
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Seems like a Taiwan is being used as pawn in the proxy war going on between US and Russia
It is awe-inspiring how the USA can get TSMC and the Taiwanese government to do anything it wants as if it owns them. This being said this will have limited impacts on Russia. The semiconductor industry mostly sells to electronics companies. The electronics industry of Russia is very small and on a USD basis Russia's semiconductor imports were just $550 million. That is %0.1 of the market. Getting cut off from finished goods is a lot more impactful for Russia because that's what it was buying. Its defense industry was the biggest importer of semiconductors. I don't know if China can fulfill Russia's needs. CETC and similars plus methods like smuggling and second hand electronics imports probably can.

BTW China is a massive producer of Neon gas. Russia is sanctioned and Ukrainian production is knocked out. China will have a huge leverage if this situation continues for 6 more months.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
It is awe-inspiring how the USA can get TSMC and the Taiwanese government to do anything it wants as if it owns them.
LOL You think any spineless third rate little shit hole can just power through American sanctions/trade war and slap America back in the face like China can? Most places would gurgle a homeless man's nuts before and after every meal to avoid American ire and the possibility of a sanction. Despite being used to it our whole lives thus making it seem mundane at times, being Chinese and witnessing the power of our motherland is a rare privilege around the world, something to be epically proud of, and to dedicate one's life to fortifying.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
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Seems like a Taiwan is being used as pawn in the proxy war going on between US and Russia
The major neon gas producer, Ukraine, is unable to export. And now Russia will not export as well

This leaves China, which can also produce neon gas, in a tremendously big advantage. I think this is prime time for using this very minor card to bring extremely large benefits.

Prioritise domestic IC producers, then "friendly" countries, then limit a bit to S.Korea and start seriously limiting exports of it to Taiwan, and soft ban any exports to the US

Neon gas is such a small and minor industry that playing this card will basically have no consequences, and it will bring dozens/hundreds of times more benefit when used. Anything to slow down their development in order to give time to the domestic IC industry to catch up is worthwhile
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The electronics industry of Russia is very small and on a USD basis Russia's semiconductor imports were just $550 million. That is %0.1 of the market. Getting cut off from finished goods is a lot more impactful for Russia because that's what it was buying. Its defense industry was the biggest importer of semiconductors. I don't know if China can fulfill Russia's needs. CETC and similars plus methods like smuggling and second hand electronics imports probably can.

BTW China is a massive producer of Neon gas. Russia is sanctioned and Ukrainian production is knocked out. China will have a huge leverage if this situation continues for 6 more months.
Any alternative sources for neon supply might take 1 - 2 years to produce from what I read. This is a major consumable gas used in KrF and ArF lithography. Which is, well, basically everything. Even production lines which are EUV based will use ArF to make lower resolution features. Or else production will be much slower.

And don't forget that TSMC would be knocked out with a semi tools embargo similar to the one China is facing. They simply do not have any choice even if their government was less of a vegetable. The US is also basically their only weapons supplier.

The military industry in Russia has been sanctioned since 2014 annexation of Crimea. They have not been able to buy military grade semiconductors since then. Neither can the Russian space industry buy space grade semiconductors. Russia spent those years since replacing the military or space grade semiconductors they did buy, and the rest they can get in the gray market.
 

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
It is awe-inspiring how the USA can get TSMC and the Taiwanese government to do anything it wants as if it owns them. This being said this will have limited impacts on Russia. The semiconductor industry mostly sells to electronics companies. The electronics industry of Russia is very small and on a USD basis Russia's semiconductor imports were just $550 million. That is %0.1 of the market. Getting cut off from finished goods is a lot more impactful for Russia because that's what it was buying. Its defense industry was the biggest importer of semiconductors. I don't know if China can fulfill Russia's needs. CETC and similars plus methods like smuggling and second hand electronics imports probably can.

BTW China is a massive producer of Neon gas. Russia is sanctioned and Ukrainian production is knocked out. China will have a huge leverage if this situation continues for 6 more months.

Electronics industry is not small in Russia interms of manpower it is just the amount / manpower dedicated to consumer side of things are small. you can read bit here what they trying to do.

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The major neon gas producer, Ukraine, is unable to export. And now Russia will also not export.

This leaves China, which can also produce neon gas, in a tremendously big advantage. I think this is prime time for using this very minor card to bring extremely large benefits.

Prioritise domestic IC producers, then "friendly" countries, then limit a bit to S.Korea and start seriously limiting exports of it to Taiwan, and soft ban any exports to the US

Neon gas is such a small and minor industry that playing this card will basically have no consequences, and it will bring dozens/hundreds of times more benefit when used. Anything to slow down their development in order to give time to the domestic IC industry to catch up is worthwhile
Domestic IC producers #1, friendly IC producers who need it #2 (mostly Malaysia tbh), South Korea/Japan/EU can fight for #3, then Taiwan, and well... there's a very limited supply of neon you see, not every country that wants it can get it, such is the cruel logic of economics. Sigh.
 
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