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Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am not at all familiar with the majority of the PLA military hardwares nor am I well versed in knowing and understanding the qualitative nature of the PLA in today's day and age. However because of poor perception about anything made in China as just bad or low quality this tag has also been carried over towards it's military hardware products in all services, especially the criticism leveled towards it's exported products. This article pretty much accused Chinese/PLA hardwares as garbage. I understand that the article itself was written by an Indian person but is what he's alleging true?

Beijing had gifted two 1970s era Ming class Type-035G submarines to Bangladesh valued at $100-million each in 2017. These were later re-inducted by the Bangladesh Navy as BNS Nobojatra and BNS Joyjatra.

However, both the platforms have been lying idle due to technical issues and could not be used as intended. The year 2020, witnessed China gifting Dhaka with two Chinese 053H3 frigates — BNS Umar Farooq and BNS Abu Ubaidah.

According to sources, the Type-053H3 frigates gifted to the Bangladesh Navy have defects in fire control system as well as in the helicopter fuelling and defueling system.

Defects have also been discovered in the gyro compass. The frigates were supplied by Poly Technologies Inc. Poly Technologies is a subsidiary of China Poly Group Corporation, a trade company with headquarters in Beijing, which deals with missiles and other military hardware.

With regard to naval platforms built by China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Co. Limited, issues that have surfaced are poor metallurgy, lack of spare part support, machinery failure, defective radars and poor armaments.

Defects have also been detected in basic trainer aircraft and K-8 aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force and short-range air defence system for the Bangladesh Army.

With the money quote: "The world over, reliability and quality of defence equipment are known as the true mark of a nation’s technology, manufacturing ability and maintenance practices."

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Right, because India is the world standard in military quality. I'm guessing this keyboard warrior is also full of praises for the Arjun too.
 

sdkan

New Member
Registered Member
I am not at all familiar with the majority of the PLA military hardwares nor am I well versed in knowing and understanding the qualitative nature of the PLA in today's day and age. However because of poor perception about anything made in China as just bad or low quality this tag has also been carried over towards it's military hardware products in all services, especially the criticism leveled towards it's exported products. This article pretty much accused Chinese/PLA hardwares as garbage. I understand that the article itself was written by an Indian person but is what he's alleging true?

Beijing had gifted two 1970s era Ming class Type-035G submarines to Bangladesh valued at $100-million each in 2017. These were later re-inducted by the Bangladesh Navy as BNS Nobojatra and BNS Joyjatra.

However, both the platforms have been lying idle due to technical issues and could not be used as intended. The year 2020, witnessed China gifting Dhaka with two Chinese 053H3 frigates — BNS Umar Farooq and BNS Abu Ubaidah.

According to sources, the Type-053H3 frigates gifted to the Bangladesh Navy have defects in fire control system as well as in the helicopter fuelling and defueling system.

Defects have also been discovered in the gyro compass. The frigates were supplied by Poly Technologies Inc. Poly Technologies is a subsidiary of China Poly Group Corporation, a trade company with headquarters in Beijing, which deals with missiles and other military hardware.

With regard to naval platforms built by China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Co. Limited, issues that have surfaced are poor metallurgy, lack of spare part support, machinery failure, defective radars and poor armaments.

Defects have also been detected in basic trainer aircraft and K-8 aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force and short-range air defence system for the Bangladesh Army.

With the money quote: "The world over, reliability and quality of defence equipment are known as the true mark of a nation’s technology, manufacturing ability and maintenance practices."

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The content of this article is not new, it is copied from another article.

Interestingly, the source of these articles are all from India.

What is the quality of Chinese military products?

That depends on whether the countries that have used Chinese military products continue to increase their imports,

If you go to a good restaurant the first time, you'll think about coming back
 

daifo

Major
Registered Member
I am not at all familiar with the majority of the PLA military hardwares nor am I well versed in knowing and understanding the qualitative nature of the PLA in today's day and age. However because of poor perception about anything made in China as just bad or low quality this tag has also been carried over towards it's military hardware products in all services, especially the criticism leveled towards it's exported products. This article pretty much accused Chinese/PLA hardwares as garbage. I understand that the article itself was written by an Indian person but is what he's alleging true?

Beijing had gifted two 1970s era Ming class Type-035G submarines to Bangladesh valued at $100-million each in 2017. These were later re-inducted by the Bangladesh Navy as BNS Nobojatra and BNS Joyjatra.

However, both the platforms have been lying idle due to technical issues and could not be used as intended. The year 2020, witnessed China gifting Dhaka with two Chinese 053H3 frigates — BNS Umar Farooq and BNS Abu Ubaidah.

According to sources, the Type-053H3 frigates gifted to the Bangladesh Navy have defects in fire control system as well as in the helicopter fuelling and defueling system.

Defects have also been discovered in the gyro compass. The frigates were supplied by Poly Technologies Inc. Poly Technologies is a subsidiary of China Poly Group Corporation, a trade company with headquarters in Beijing, which deals with missiles and other military hardware.

With regard to naval platforms built by China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Co. Limited, issues that have surfaced are poor metallurgy, lack of spare part support, machinery failure, defective radars and poor armaments.

Defects have also been detected in basic trainer aircraft and K-8 aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force and short-range air defence system for the Bangladesh Army.

With the money quote: "The world over, reliability and quality of defence equipment are known as the true mark of a nation’s technology, manufacturing ability and maintenance practices."

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There are always hundreds if not thousands of defects in open/pending status for every complex engineering project. Some are actually fixed, some never fixed, some where everyone agree to shrug and say its a feature
 

Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
There definitely needs more conflicts and arguments within Europe.

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In the latest round of a dispute over Nazi compensation claims, Germany wants to protect its properties in Rome from seizure

Germany is suing Italy in the top UN court in the latest round of long-standing dispute over Nazi compensation claims, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) revealed on Friday.

In its application Germany claims that Rome has continued to allow Nazi war crime victims to file requests for compensation from Berlin, even though in 2012 the ICJ ruled that it is illegal. In the claimant’s view, by doing so Italy “has violated, and continues to violate, its obligation to respect Germany’s sovereign immunity.”

Germany therefore argues that Rome must “take effective steps” to prevent such “violations” from happening in the future, to provide all relevant guarantees, “to make full reparation” for any injury caused, and to cover “any financially assessable injury resulting from proceedings conducted.”

Berlin says that it is aware of at least 25 Third Reich crimes-related cases which have been brought against Germany in Italian domestic courts since the 2012 court decision. Some of the proceedings resulted in rulings ordering Germany to pay compensation. To enforce the rulings, Italian authorities have been trying to seize four German state-owned properties in Rome, including buildings housing the German Archaeological Institute and the Goethe Institute.

Germany explained that despite confirmation of the non-commercial status of these properties by the Italian government, the Court of Rome has proceeded with the enforcement process and on 25 May 2022 will announce its decision on whether to put the buildings up for sale at a public auction.

“Under the circumstances, and as further detailed below, Germany is now compelled to seek provisional measures from the Court in order to safeguard its rights against irreparable harm,” Germany’s application states.

The dispute between Germany and Italy over compensation claims for Nazi crimes started in 2008 when Berlin was ordered by the highest Italian court to pay approximately 1 million euros to the families of nine victims, killed by the Germans in 1944 in Tuscany.

Germany argues that since the end of the World War Two and Nazi regime’s defeat it has paid billions of euros to the countries affected in accordance with peace and reparation treaties.

No date was immediately set for hearings at the ICJ. Rulings by the United Nations court, which normally considers cases for years, are final and legally binding.
 

Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
Chyna! Chyna! Chyna!...a good distraction.

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The US-led Western media are relentlessly attacking China over its "dynamic zero-COVID" policy and exaggerating the impact on China's economy, but Chinese analysts said ironically, the US has nothing to show for it on both counts - 1 million Americans have died of the pandemic, while the virus is still wreaking havoc in the country and the US economy is contracting this year.

Although the Omicron variant has brought challenges to China and has led to a spike in confirmed cases, compared to the US situation, the impact on China is still relatively small and controllable. China's success is a result of its firm execution of the "dynamic zero-COVID" strategy, as the country tries to control both the pandemic and its impact on the economy.

It is unlikely the United States will ever eliminate COVID-19, top US infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said, adding that the nation should strive to control the virus and get out of the acute pandemic phase, Reuters reported on Saturday.

"When I said we are no longer in that fulminant acute phase, that does not mean that the pandemic is over," Fanci said. "By no means is it over. We still are experiencing a global pandemic."

An article in The New York Times said experts believe reaching so-called 'Herd Immunity' is unlikely in the US.

US data on COVID-19 shows that up to 1 million deaths have been recorded, while the country still registers thousands of daily inflections now. And, quite unexpected the US GDP shrank 1.4 percent year-on-year in the first 3 months of 2022.

Analysts said the Chinese economy's performance is in much better shape than that of the US, as China has put both the virus and inflation under firm control.

According to the Xinhua News Agency on Saturday, The Chinese mainland on Friday reported 1,410 locally transmitted confirmed COVID-19 cases, of which 1,249 were in Shanghai, according to the National Health Commission's report on Saturday.

The rest of the cases were reported in 14 other provincial-level regions, including Beijing, Guangdong and Sichuan. And a total of 3,127 COVID-19 patients were discharged from hospitals after recovery on the Chinese mainland on Friday, the National Health Commission said.

China's economy got off to a steady start in the first quarter of 2022 despite an increasingly complex international environment and resurgences of COVID-19 at numerous cities.

The country's gross domestic product grew 4.8 percent year-on-year to 27.02 trillion yuan (about $4.24 trillion) in the first three months, picking up pace from a 4-percent increase in the fourth quarter last year, data from the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) showed April 18.

The economy posted a stable performance with continued recovery as China struck a balance between virus control and economic and economic and social development, NBS spokesperson Fu Linghui told a press conference.
 

Topazchen

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China meets banks to discuss protecting assets from US sanctions​

Officials concerned that measures taken against Moscow could also be applied to Beijing
Chinese regulators have held an emergency meeting with domestic and foreign banks to discuss how they could protect the country’s overseas assets from US-led sanctions similar to those imposed on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, according to people familiar with the discussion.

Officials are worried the same measures could be taken against Beijing in the event of a regional military conflict or other crisis. President Xi Jinping’s administration has maintained
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throughout the crisis but Chinese banks and companies remain wary of transacting any business with Russian entities that could trigger US sanctions.

The internal conference, held on April 22, included officials from China’s
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and finance ministry, as well as executives from dozens of local and international lenders such as HSBC, the people said. The ministry of finance said at the meeting that all large foreign and domestic banks operating in China were represented.

They added that the meeting began with remarks from a senior finance ministry official who said Xi’s administration had been put on alert by the ability of the US and its allies to freeze the Russian central bank’s dollar assets.

The officials and attendees did not mention specific scenarios but one possible trigger for such sanctions is thought to be a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, which China claims as its territory and has threatened to invade it if Taipei refuses to submit to its control indefinitely
“If
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, decoupling of the Chinese and western economies will be far more severe than [decoupling with] Russia because China’s economic footprint touches every part of the world,” said one of the people briefed on the meeting.

Andrew Collier, managing director of Orient Capital Research in Hong Kong, said the Chinese government was right to be concerned “because it has very few alternatives and the consequences [of US financial sanctions] are disastrous”.

Senior regulators including Yi Huiman, president of the China Securities Regulatory Commission, and Xiao Gang, who headed the CSRC from 2013 to 2016, asked bankers in attendance what could be done to protect the nation’s overseas assets, especially its $3.2tn in foreign reserves.

China’s vast dollar-denominated holdings range from more than $1tn US Treasury bonds to New York office buildings. State-owned Dajia Insurance Group, for example, owns the Waldorf Astoria New York.

“No one on site could think of a good solution to the problem,” said another person briefed on the meeting, “China’s banking system isn’t prepared for a freeze of its dollar assets or exclusion from the Swift messaging system as the US has done to Russia.”
HSBC did not respond to a request for comment.

Some bankers suggested that the central bank could require exporters to exchange all of their foreign exchange revenues for renminbi to increase its onshore dollar holdings. Exporters are currently allowed to retain a portion of their foreign exchange earnings for future use.

Others suggested a “significant” cut to the $50,000 quota that Chinese nationals are allowed to purchase every year for overseas travel, education and other offshore purchases.

When one official asked Chinese bankers if they could diversify into more yen or euro-backed assets, they replied that the idea was not practical.

Some bankers present, however, doubted whether Washington could ever afford to cut economic ties with China given its status as the world’s second-largest economy, huge holdings of dollar assets and close trade relationship with the US.

“It is difficult for the US to impose massive sanctions against China,” agreed Collier. “It is like mutually assured destruction in a nuclear war.”

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" Some bankers present, however, doubted whether Washington could ever afford to cut economic ties with China given its status as the world’s second-largest economy, huge holdings of dollar assets and close trade relationship with the US.

“It is difficult for the US to impose massive sanctions against China,” agreed Collier. “It is like mutually assured destruction in a nuclear war.”

These doubting Thomases who think the US will not resort to extreme measures need to have their heads checked.
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
I am not at all familiar with the majority of the PLA military hardwares nor am I well versed in knowing and understanding the qualitative nature of the PLA in today's day and age. However because of poor perception about anything made in China as just bad or low quality this tag has also been carried over towards it's military hardware products in all services, especially the criticism leveled towards it's exported products. This article pretty much accused Chinese/PLA hardwares as garbage. I understand that the article itself was written by an Indian person but is what he's alleging true?

Beijing had gifted two 1970s era Ming class Type-035G submarines to Bangladesh valued at $100-million each in 2017. These were later re-inducted by the Bangladesh Navy as BNS Nobojatra and BNS Joyjatra.

However, both the platforms have been lying idle due to technical issues and could not be used as intended. The year 2020, witnessed China gifting Dhaka with two Chinese 053H3 frigates — BNS Umar Farooq and BNS Abu Ubaidah.

According to sources, the Type-053H3 frigates gifted to the Bangladesh Navy have defects in fire control system as well as in the helicopter fuelling and defueling system.

Defects have also been discovered in the gyro compass. The frigates were supplied by Poly Technologies Inc. Poly Technologies is a subsidiary of China Poly Group Corporation, a trade company with headquarters in Beijing, which deals with missiles and other military hardware.

With regard to naval platforms built by China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Co. Limited, issues that have surfaced are poor metallurgy, lack of spare part support, machinery failure, defective radars and poor armaments.

Defects have also been detected in basic trainer aircraft and K-8 aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force and short-range air defence system for the Bangladesh Army.

With the money quote: "The world over, reliability and quality of defence equipment are known as the true mark of a nation’s technology, manufacturing ability and maintenance practices."

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You should have stopped reading at "article itself was written by an Indian person"
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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A secret ingredient to success in American business is promoting white supremacy without actually saying it. It's like the okay hand signal is a white power secret gesture identification between sympathizers as a message of defiance. Netflix just released a documentary about the rise and fall of the clothier, Abercrombie and Fitch. Even in this documentary which talked about the store's discriminatory practices, they didn't say the store's success was in selling celebrating being white and beautiful. All you had to do was look at their advertising campaigns which was about young and beautiful white people hanging out with one another. Abercrombie and Fitch's first venture into controversy was selling racist t-shirts mainly against Asians that got a lot of attention. When it got attention in the media, they would soon discontinue the product but then a new controversial racist t-shirt would follow afterwards and the cycle would continue. They even interviewed a former Abercrombie and Fitch executive who said the shirts were highly profitable because they didn't spend money on any copyright. It meant they knew it wasn't going to last because they were selling on the initial controversy. It's a working business model. The alt-right and proud boys today is all about being unapologetic and defending the white male and a lot of mediums centered around that like Tucker Carlson on TV and Joe Rogan on YouTube and Spotify are successful.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Will this result in an economic meltdown similar in scale to the 2008 financial crisis? Or worse? 1929 market crash?

If this does happen, will China bail the US out this time like she did back in 2008?

If China refuses to bail the US out this time, how would the forecoming crisis affect the world economy?

No, the market meltdown is fully self inflicted by the Fed raising interest rates. The first rule of finance is wall st != main street. The Fed is willing to tolerate a correction in stocks and bonds and a minor slow down in actual productivity in order control inflation. If the rate increases start causing major job losses, freeze on factory activity or a sharp housing market decline, they can halt or roll back the interest rate increases. The FED is trying to engineer a soft landing(as they should).

The answer is quite simple really.

Massively expand the OBOR project. Dump all the foreign reserves into expanding other regional powers which can act as counterbalances to the Western economic system. The easiest and quickest way is dump a huge chunk of it into AIIB or similar and use it to provide loans to those countries. Those countries will then spend the money and provide revenues back to China better than US treasury bonds ever will. Internationalize Chinese companies by opening more facilities in non-Western nations.

Increase the reserves of strategic commodities.

Improve on the ways to convert the Rmb into other currencies and vice-versa. Increase the amount of Rmb used in international settlements. Enhance the Chinese financial industry so it can better compete with the Western one by providing more advanced products. This might be a commodities exchange denominated in RMB, or a stock market network that international investors can invest in with RMB, or a futures exchange denominated in RMB.

It's actually not simple at all. The meeting undoubtedly has some of the smartest people in China there - central bank planners, people from the finance ministry, economic policy makers, reps from all the major banks - basically people with way more experience than us and didn't leave the meeting with a rock solid solution or strategy.


Lets look at some of your points: "Massively expand the OBOR project, dump all foreign reserves into expanding other regional powers":

  1. This will cause massive inflation in the APAC region, the number is 2-3 trillion that we're talking about here. India's GDP is only 3 Trillion, South Korea is 1.6T, Australia's is 1.3T and all those countries aren't exactly friendly towards China, so you don't want to "expand" them. The next reasonable investment target is Indonesia, but 3T in reserves is already 3x their GDP. You can only build so many high speed rail lines, hotels, schools, factories in a country that size with 3T.
"The easiest and quickest way is dump a huge chunk of it into AIIB or similar and use it to provide loans to those countries."
  1. How's the PBOC going to manage all those investments? When you start throwing so much money at everyone, the credit quality of your loans are going to go down. How do you ensure every party you lent 3-4 Billion to will pay you back. How do you find quality and stable projects to invest in. How do you ensure if a country gets "coup'ed", that China will still be able to get so value back?
  2. In finance, there's a term called liquidity - the value of foreign reserves comes from the fact that it's liquid and can be used easily to facility China's monetary and FX operations. 1 Billion dollars is accessible and useable to buy crude/gold/airplanes/food instantly, much more difficult to trade a rail line China built and financed in Cambodia for instance into the same.
"Those countries will then spend the money and provide revenues back to China better than US treasury bonds ever will."
  1. And what if they don't? Governments change, alliances change. Counter party risk, geopolitical risk, credit risk, market risk.
"Increase the reserves of strategic commodities."
  1. And what commodities will that be?
  2. Do you know insanely large the pile of wheat/corn/coal/crude/rice/soy would be if China spent 3T on it. Even if you can hypothetically buy that much food commodities, you have a tremendous storage costs to deal. Plus corn/wheat/rice/soy all have a shelf life, there's only a certain amount of time you can store it before it goes bad.
  3. Say you do end up buying so much soy/rice/wheat/corn and flood the Chinese domestic market with it. That'll kill off domestic farming industry in the short term because they won't be able to compete with the imports.
  4. Because the the world can only produce a certain amount of commodities during a certain time period, you're going to massively drive up the prices of the commodities. i.e. the first billion ton batch of corn you buy will cost 50 billion, the second billion ton of corn will cost 80 billion, the subsequent batch will be 150 billion, etc. 3T will quickly exhaust the world's farming capacity.
"Improve on the ways to convert the Rmb into other currencies and vice-versa. Increase the amount of Rmb used in international settlements."
  1. This sounds good, but drill down and it will be "how?" exactly. "How" is always the big question that needs to be answered. How exactly do you want China to do when you say conversion into other currencies, and how will that work on the scale of 3Trillion in reserves that's finically sound?

I don't want to sound rude or dismissive, but there is no "simple and easy" solution to China's FX reserve holding problem or else China wouldn't have to worry about it now.
 
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