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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Index said:
The climate thing is honestly a culmination of 2+ decades of a vast gamble between US and China. US gambled that fracking would be the future, while China gambled that EVs and renewables would be the future.

This gamble can be credited as one of the major factors that flipped balance of power over to China. Probably if the roles were switched, the balance of power would be much more even or even favor US today. Whoever adamantly drove the fracking politics in the US did a huge mistake, while those pushing for renewables in China demonstrated great foresight.

I think Trump's anti climate position is simply a tantrum at having lost the gamble. They're not presenting real solutions or making an attempt to rally. Instead, they're just doing ostrich tactics by refusing to engage with any of the new tech. It's incredibly self destructive.
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not an irrational gamble for the US, since they had dominance in combustion engines. For them, a fracking based world would cement their dominance since they and their minions controlled the highest levels of combustion engine tech. Even climate change would harm the global south more.

China completely outmaneuvered them and for the correct, moral reasons as well.

It is interesting how everywhere else in the world, those who self identify as liberals love hybrids and EVs, while Chinese liberals hate EVs and love pure gas guzzlers, and the more inefficient the better.
 
I

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
Index said:
The climate thing is honestly a culmination of 2+ decades of a vast gamble between US and China. US gambled that fracking would be the future, while China gambled that EVs and renewables would be the future.

This gamble can be credited as one of the major factors that flipped balance of power over to China. Probably if the roles were switched, the balance of power would be much more even or even favor US today. Whoever adamantly drove the fracking politics in the US did a huge mistake, while those pushing for renewables in China demonstrated great foresight.

I think Trump's anti climate position is simply a tantrum at having lost the gamble. They're not presenting real solutions or making an attempt to rally. Instead, they're just doing ostrich tactics by refusing to engage with any of the new tech. It's incredibly self destructive.
Click to expand...
There were no mistake because the decision never came up, it was never possible for the roles to be switched, the feudal lords of oil and gas industry is entrenched and fracking is just a natural continuation of their business, US need to have a fundamentally different culture and character which does not worship corruption for anyone to even consider making long term plan for the society at the expense of feudal lords.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the collective western liberal supposed order don't try to do a serious self- introspection, political reform, proper and real accountability to the supposed integrity or lack thereof of their journalism, business, military, the unfortunate slide down to right wing rule will be just an inevitability.

Exhibit #66

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Temstar

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Index said:
The climate thing is honestly a culmination of 2+ decades of a vast gamble between US and China. US gambled that fracking would be the future, while China gambled that EVs and renewables would be the future.

This gamble can be credited as one of the major factors that flipped balance of power over to China. Probably if the roles were switched, the balance of power would be much more even or even favor US today. Whoever adamantly drove the fracking politics in the US did a huge mistake, while those pushing for renewables in China demonstrated great foresight.

I think Trump's anti climate position is simply a tantrum at having lost the gamble. They're not presenting real solutions or making an attempt to rally. Instead, they're just doing ostrich tactics by refusing to engage with any of the new tech. It's incredibly self destructive.
Click to expand...
I think climate change, while certainly a real global issue was being setup as another way to control the developing world.

Imagine a future were clean energy technology was firmly under the control of the west. Any time a developing country wants to industrialize they would immediately jump out and say "well you're powering your machines with dirty electricity, we have to charge you 50% emission duty on all goods you produce, for the good of the environment you understand. Instead of doing all that dirty industrialisation why don't you continue to work on agriculture and mining of resources and sell those to us. That suits you much better and its environmentally friendly."

Except they didn't factor in that when CPC wants something done and sets out an industrial policy for it, things get done. Now China is the leading country for renewable and they will try to play it down, Least the future listed above actually arrives, except it's China and BRI friends who charge the west emission duty because they are falling behind on adapting renewable.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Index said:
The climate thing is honestly a culmination of 2+ decades of a vast gamble between US and China. US gambled that fracking would be the future, while China gambled that EVs and renewables would be the future.

This gamble can be credited as one of the major factors that flipped balance of power over to China. Probably if the roles were switched, the balance of power would be much more even or even favor US today. Whoever adamantly drove the fracking politics in the US did a huge mistake, while those pushing for renewables in China demonstrated great foresight.

I think Trump's anti climate position is simply a tantrum at having lost the gamble. They're not presenting real solutions or making an attempt to rally. Instead, they're just doing ostrich tactics by refusing to engage with any of the new tech. It's incredibly self destructive.
Click to expand...
There wasn't a gamble in that sense because the US and to an extend Europe didn't have serious intention of switching to renewables in the first place. The whole thing was supposed to be a money making scheme, where the West gets to dictate what is "green", and forcing countries such as China to pay the West environmental surcharges on top of producing goods for the West.
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Engineer said:
There wasn't a gamble in that sense because the US and to an extend Europe didn't have serious intention of switching to renewables in the first place. The whole thing was supposed to be a money making scheme, where the West gets to dictate what is "green", and forcing countries such as China to pay the West environmental surcharges on top of producing goods for the West.
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As someone else wrote above, indeed they probably couldn't because of far too entrenched fossil fuel oligarchs. So they were in a way predestined to choose oil, while China had the freedom to choose either.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Temstar said:
I think climate change, while certainly a real global issue was being setup as another way to control the developing world.

Imagine a future were clean energy technology was firmly under the control of the west. Any time a developing country wants to industrialize they would immediately jump out and say "well you're powering your machines with dirty electricity, we have to charge you 50% emission duty on all goods you produce, for the good of the environment you understand. Instead of doing all that dirty industrialisation why don't you continue to work on agriculture and mining of resources and sell those to us. That suits you much better and its environmentally friendly."

Except they didn't factor in that when CPC wants something done and sets out an industrial policy for it, things get done. Now China is the leading country for renewable and they will try to play it down, Least the future listed above actually arrives, except it's China and BRI friends who charge the west emission duty because they are falling behind on adapting renewable.
Click to expand...
that world cannot happen though, as the oil/gas/auto oligarchs made far too much money from the status quo. The petroleum/petrochemical/automotive supply chain is still a multi trillion USD industry in the US alone.

Renewables was to them just a distraction, a useful way to tax the rest of the world if it happened, but they would never, ever give up their main industry for some relatively small side tax.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
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Kim Jong Un has achieved something his father and grandfather could not, a face-to-face visit with sitting US President that lead to defacto legitimization of it's nuclear program, and a mutual defense pact with Russia. That's pretty damn impressive.

Now if North Korea depletes it's arsenal, does China by law required to replenish and maintain the balance of power on Korean peninsula and NK's self-defensive capabilities? I think 1962 Sino-DPRK MDT is pretty clear on that. US getting it's taste of it's own medicine by invoking TRA arm sales on self-defense premise.
 
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