Military Conscription

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Well this is odd, I was under the impression that once you turned 18 in the States you would have to sign up for selective service, to make you eligible if a draft was ever instituted. I can't really tell what's new about what is being proposed, except that it may be mandatory instead of just penalizing people (unable to attend college I think, along with some job problems) That was my welcome to the USA after 8 years.

Just in case some of you don't know the US military draft would be the US version of conscription.

Nothing new. I think it will be a return of the previous draft. Two year active duty enlistment with 4 years reserve duty. I wonder if they will draft women??

I hope that the Democrats actually come through with this and push it through instead of just using it to nail the Republicans again for their botched conduct of the world. But chances are they will not go through with the draft, because they're too afraid of losing the White House in 2008.

I agree wholeheartly with your last statement. The whole idea behind the draft, no matter what Rep. Rangel says, is to force the Republicans & president to make some harsh decisions on the GWOT(Global War on Terror) and the war in Iraq. they don't want to be know as the party that re-insutuded the military draft.

edit..I just heard that the term of service would be 15 months....
 
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The_Zergling

Junior Member
Huh, now I'm really confused. To the extent of my knowledge, we already have mechanisms for the draft in selective service. Can someone clarify? The version of the draft stated by the official website looks to be even tighter than the Vietnam war-era one, for example
Under the current draft law, a college student can have his induction postponed only until the end of the current semester. A senior can be postponed until the end of the academic year.

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adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
I'll be turning 18 in about 8 months so yes it makes me a little nervous, althoug at this point i haven't ruled out military service yet but i would like to wait till im a little older to seriously consider it. Back on topic, if the conscription period is relativly short say 6 months to a year and one has the option of becoming a profesional solider for a longer time period then yes i think conscription is a good thing.

That'd be more like the Switzerland reserve/militia system, which isn't bad. You make all the men take basic training (18-21 weeks), then send them home and call them back once a year for 3-week refersher course. Conscientious objectors can opt for 390 days of community serve in lieu of military service.

Here's one possible method based partially on your model: upon graduation from HS, send all the men to 3-6 month basic training, then let them choose if they want to do military or civic duty. Those who opt for military service would enjoy more perks in pay and benefits. Those who opt for civic duty will have to serve 6 months longer than their military counterpart, and will be paid less.

While serving in military or civic duty, the men would also be required to attend classes that can count toward college credits. I'm not sure if this is feasible, but if accelerated-learning classes are used, it may be possible to award AA degrees upon completion of 2-3 year service period.

So when your'e done with your "tour", you're 21 years old and have an AA degree, with about 70 units that is transferrable to a 4-year university, should you decide to pursue a BA degree. For those that served in the military, they'd receive educational benefit package that can be used to pay for continuing education.

Along with the conscription, I'd also impose national "minimum age" to vote, purchase liquer/tobacco, firearms/ammunition, and marriage to 21 for men and 18 for women.


p.s. For those who are unfamiliar, AA is an "Associate Degree" offered by Community College in the US. These are generally considered "2 year" college degrees. You can transfer about 70 credits worth of classes toward 4-year college. Each class counts for 3-4 credits/units.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Huh, now I'm really confused. To the extent of my knowledge, we already have mechanisms for the draft in selective service. Can someone clarify? The version of the draft stated by the official website looks to be even tighter than the Vietnam war-era one, for example

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I'm pretty sure that during the Vietnam War a person could get a deferment for the full time he was in college as long as he was passing.

I heard politicans from both parties today declaring their opposition to the draft. Gee what a schock! :eek: I really do not think there will be one any time soon in the US. Afterall if you were a Democrat would you want your party connected to a military draft? Hell no. I just don't think it will work in the US. The mind set of the average 18-25 year old crowd in the US is to self centered to serve in the military.

If I was a senior NCO on active duty I would really "bust the chops " of any cry baby draftee's. That's what will happen. I know I lived through that in my earilest years of my USN career.
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
I'm pretty sure that during the Vietnam War a person could get a deferment for the full time he was in college as long as he was passing.

Yes, you could in the Vietnam war, but what I was noting was that now (2006) you wouldn't be able to get out of it via college deferment, once your semester was finished you would have to go regardless. Therefore it's harder to find ways out of the military unless your rich father bails you out.

But my question appears to have been overlooked... so I'll try again. ^_^
Is selective service used in the US provision for a wartime draft, and if so, what is new about this bill being brought to the table?
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
What is new? 15 months of service instead of 2 years. The college deferrement is gone. That's so rich kids just can't stay in college to avoid military service. And there may be optional national service. .""He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, Rangel says, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.""

My own opinion is I am against a military draft at this time...Just in case anyone was wondering.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
My own opinion is I am against a military draft at this time...Just in case anyone was wondering.

Would you be opposed to a "national civil service" program?

I'd not be opposed to "conscripting" young men into a national service, where they have a choice of military or civil service. The civil service program can cover everything from reconstruction of urban blight areas to pushing neglected grandmothers in wheelchair from senior care homes to picnics or adult education classes.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
I don't think the USA can be easily applied to the original topic, since the USA has been overly hyperactive in wars.

I wouldn't mind being conscripted at all, just not to America, because we are at war, almost always, and definitely now. I just don't trust the government that much when it comes to foreign policy, and thus I will not accept me being recruited. Even internally wise, there are two factions, one rather nuts, the other rather abusive....I'll leave it there, you guys know what I am implying already.
The National Guard counts also because there are National Guard troops now in Iraq. (Hmm, turns out America not just rely on technology, but lack MP training for patrolling like those in the City Center of Baghdad)
Honestly, I don't mind being conscripted, even to easily overrun(size-wise) Singapore.

We are talking about a peaceful country here, and will the kids are like those around me, then I would want the government to impose conscription for those who just graduated(or left) from primary education-i.e. in most countries- so that the kids will learn better than to fool around in college/job. In the long run, it helps us become more practical. (Hope it helps with reducing personal debt here....)

As for gender, I'd say that everyone should serve. Yes, girls are the ones that gets hit with 9 months of gestation, the ones that get raped. But we are talking about a peaceful nation here, so I don't think you'll be invading others. And if you get invaded, well, if the enemy obeys the modern rules of combat a.k.a. Geneva Convention, they won't rape girls, otherwise, they'll rape every girl they see, military or not. It benefits girls also, since learning some basic martial arts moves can help in defending against sex offenders.

Serving in the military isn't the only way to serve your country, and you guys have mentioned it. I'd say as a conscript you can do either 2 years of military or 4 of civil.

PS- after that fatal incident from yesterday on Mr. Anderson with Ammonia, I think this is getting only colder.
 

Delphi84

New Member
VIP Professional
Haiz.......... talking abt military conscriptions i decided to tell u or should i say paint to u the happy yet most of the time, sad aspects of conscriptions in Singapore.........
In Singapore, all males at the age of 18 is drafted regardless whether u are a conscious objector or a person in religious training, eg. trainee priest. We have one of the longest conscription term in the world that is around 2.5 yrs, recently they reduced it to 2 yrs. U will do a basic military training of about 3 months and get posted to either the army, navy, airforce, if not, u might get into civil defence like for example, police force or fire-fighter. U dun get to choose, they choose for you. For me, I was posted to a Guards battalion which is some what like air-mobile infantry with some capabilities of that of a marine. Training was of course tough but bearable, and there will of course be good and bad memories to come with.

Positve aspects:

U get a chance to interact with ppls from all walks of life and to get out of ur typical comfort zone. For me, I was a college graduate and I never had a chance to mix with lower educated groups. And the army gives u a chance to see the true colours of ppls and ferret out who are ur true frens and who are those that suck up to the superiors, i can say it is a good prep for work environment in the future with all those office politics. U get a chance to interact with foreign troops u train with and get a chance to visit other countries. For example, I trained with the royal Thai army before and some the ppls in our Bn got a cause to fly to US to train with the USMC. I also got a chance to visit Australia and train in shoal waterbay area which is a unique experience as usually Australia is considered too expensive to holiday for me at least. I also trained in Brunei rain-forest too.

Now it is the cons:
Firstly, many ppls sustained many injuries during training and some of these injuries are permanent and causes lifelong pain to the person. I have a fren who carries the GPMG and the MG hits his back as he attempts to prone down and take cover fast. As a result, he suffered 3 hairline cracks on his spine, while others suffered from slip disc. U must noe that SG forces lvl of mechanisation is not as high as the NATO countries, thus most troops operate on foot, eg most exercise I participate, I have trekked abt 20+ throughout the nite to reach the objective. Thus over-time, many ppls including myself sustain injuries. I carried the 4 rounds for the 84mm Carl Gustaf rifle which is itself abt 14kgplus my personal kit and rifle, it can easily work to abt 27 to 30 KG which is tough for a small Asian guy to carry. The worst is the ministry of defence tries not to compensate those injuried. Unlike other nations in which those injuried during training, care will be given to them to the max. Here, they will try to delay paperwork procedures, so by the time u leave the conscription term, u are no longer liable for medical coverage. In fact, during my two yrs, 2 members of my Bn died as a result of training, one died of over-exhaustion while the other died during POW training. The biggest joke is that they are only compensated 6000 dollars, when the cost of a coffin is more than that.
Another thing is, most male when they enter university or workforce, they are older than their peers by 3 yrs. When I met my female college classmate one day at university, she was already in 3rd yr mechanical engineering while I am onli a first yr engineering student. The feeling of coming back to civilian life is like a man frozen in time and suddenly being unfrozen in the yr 3000. The feeling is sad, weird and bizarre. Many of my peers also lost their girlfriends as they are away from them for a long extended time, thus it is hard for the gals to wait for them.To make things worst, here we practise yearly reservist training for 10 consecutive yrs, and mobilisation. Which means to say yearly, males have to go back to camps for 1 month worth of training. In times of globalisation and a world highly accessible by air travel. Local males marketability in the work force is at risk. Companies especially MNC dun really like the idea that their workers have to disrupt from work to go back for training, as time is money. This is worsen by the case that our govt is giving out PR-ship to Indian and PRC like free chocolates. Coupled with the fact many PRC tertiary educated folks are finding difficulty to secure a job as they face millions of their own peers searching for jobs too. Thus many jump on the bandwagon and come to SG to work. This puts local males in an unfavourable position as companies tends to hire the PRC as they dun need to do reservist or do mobilisation practises. Thus jobs from blue collared ones to managerial ones are being 'robbed' by them as there are always throngs and throngs of "temporary immigrants" ready to replace you in the future.................

When posting in this forum you need to use your best English. No "u r" etc..

bd popeye moderator
 
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