Martial Arts in the Military

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Mightypeon

Junior Member
VIP Professional
solarz said:
If this is what you think, then you might want to consider the following points:

1. Forms are meant for learning a style, not for learning how to fight. Learning by rote is a staple of Chinese education. In wen (literary skills), students learned by reading and memorizing entire books. Likewise, in wu (martial skills), students learned by practicing forms.

However, just like someone who only memorizes books without any practice on actually applying the knowledge in those books will fare poorly in a real job, a martial arts student who only practices forms without sparring and even real combat experience will fare poorly in a real fight.

Again, like I said, there wouldn't be so many styles if they weren't effective in a fight.

2. If you think that MMA ground fights are examples of "real fights", think again. Going to ground, in any fight outside of a 1-on-1, is a really bad idea, as you'll be defenseless against your opponent's buddies. This is why in Sanda, they practice throws without following your opponent to the ground. In a real fight, if your opponent is down, and you're standing, you can quickly end the fight with a kick to the head.
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Actually, it already become seriously unwise to ground-wrestler as soon as the ground is hard and unregular.
From my personal experience however, MMA is very "pragmatic", most serious MMA-users tend to be more free in admitting their "flaws" as opposed to (especially non Asian) practicioners of East Asian Martial Arts.

The German military (conscripts)has some basic instruction on how to kick people in the groin with a soldier boot, how to hit people in the torso with a Bayonett, with a bit of a (psychological) focus on how to not crap your pants while doing so ;). This focus involves much shouting ,swearing and laughing. Basically, laughing, shouting swearing and crapping your pants are all very primal forms of stress relief, that differ greatly in their ability to increase your prospects of survival.
As well as a lengthy treatise on why its always nice to have some ammo in your gun.


Apart from that: First (unofficial) law of unarmed combat in the Bundswehr:
"Dont be unarmed you idiot!"
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Mightypeon said:
Apart from that: First (unofficial) law of unarmed combat in the Bundswehr:
"Dont be unarmed you idiot!"
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Nobody can go around being armed all the time, especially not in modern society. Knowledge of unarmed combat helps you defend yourself in an emergency situation.
 
Ali Khan

Ali Khan

Junior Member
In Pakistan we also have martial arts training for our soldier..... the most popular type is taekwandoo.
 
M

montyp165

Senior Member
I keep hearing from the Japanese right-wingers about the supposedly superior Japanese martial arts fighting techniques vs Chinese martial arts, but then again they never had to face Chinese troops using Chinese martial arts in battle during the War of Resistance to see just how effective it is... :coffee:
 
N

no_name

Colonel
Their Karate has ties to Chinese, Okinawan martial arts.

'Ka' was originally the Japanese sound for Tang, Karate means way of the Tang fist.
To was later changed to way of the empty fist to hide its chinese origin since 'empty', also uses the same character 'ka'.


I've heard that USN SEAL training for close combat includes a course on Wing Chun.
 
N

no_name

Colonel
In China, martial arts that can defeat opponents by making use of positional leverage and the opponents' own force rather than focus on speed and force alone are valued because these are less influenced by old age and weakness in strength and can even be refined overtime.

You would find that masters are quite strict as far as technique and posture execution goes for many Chinese martial arts.
Also with any martial arts the timing for executing a move is a lot more important than the move itself
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
In my opinion, the problem with Chinese martial arts are that many of them took a long time to actually become adequately specialised in and could bring out to the street for a fight, but same result could be achieved by a shorter time needed because the moves are more direct as compared to the Chinese.

Of course, I myself is never a martial artist and could not imagine myself fighting bare handed with anyone (Lol)... but I believe that Chinese martial art required alot of talent in a practicioner, styles like the taiji (combat form), and many other styles are really not easy to comprehend... much less to be effective in battle.
 
H

Horizon

Just Hatched
Registered Member
rhino123 said:
In my opinion, the problem with Chinese martial arts are that many of them took a long time to actually become adequately specialised in and could bring out to the street for a fight, but same result could be achieved by a shorter time needed because the moves are more direct as compared to the Chinese.
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Basically the best martial arts of China involve real and fake, fast and slow movements to confuse your opponents. I've seen a shaolin monk taking on a state boxing champion in a friendly fight, and I can tell you those crappy looking shaolin movements really works in a real fight. In fact that boxing champ was not even in the same league as the monk. The reason why there are so many slow and fake movements in top Chinese martial arts is to ensure that their opponents don't get used to the speed of their punches and kicks, and where those punches and kicks are headed (trust me those monks are REALLY fast and EXPLOSIVE but they don't usually show this to you until your pretty much screwed :D). i.e. it's designed to get your opponent off guard so it will open an opportunity for a deadly blow to finish the fight. If every thing was that direct then your opponent will eventually get used to your movements and start to predict what your going to do next and hence counter it. (Even in boxing or MMA fights you always see those slow jabs and kicks that doesn't really do any damage). This is why "the same result" you have described doesn't really makes sense and why traditional kung fu still happens to exists as of today (although sadly :(, traditional kung fu are becoming rarer and rarer due to how much dedication it involves).
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Horizon said:
Basically the best martial arts of China involve real and fake, fast and slow movements to confuse your opponents. I've seen a shaolin monk taking on a state boxing champion in a friendly fight, and I can tell you those crappy looking shaolin movements really works in a real fight. In fact that boxing champ was not even in the same league as the monk. The reason why there are so many slow and fake movements in top Chinese martial arts is to ensure that their opponents don't get used to the speed of their punches and kicks, and where those punches and kicks are headed (trust me those monks are REALLY fast and EXPLOSIVE but they don't usually show this to you until your pretty much screwed :D). i.e. it's designed to get your opponent off guard so it will open an opportunity for a deadly blow to finish the fight. If every thing was that direct then your opponent will eventually get used to your movements and start to predict what your going to do next and hence counter it. (Even in boxing or MMA fights you always see those slow jabs and kicks that doesn't really do any damage). This is why "the same result" you have described doesn't really makes sense and why traditional kung fu still happens to exists as of today (although sadly :(, traditional kung fu are becoming rarer and rarer due to how much dedication it involves).
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Yes, I agreed with you 100% in the effectiveness of Chinese Kungfu. What I mean to say in my previous post was that CHinese Kungfu was difficult to learn, much less to master and it takes a lot of talents to be good at that martial arts. As compared, boxing and even to some extend karate's moves are more direct and straight... with very little fanciful moves (be those useful or not).
 
A

ahho

Junior Member
Well like the other guy said, if you just memorize the form and not understand and don't know how to apply it, of course it will be useless. As I see it, "Forms" are a way to let student to easily remember how to apply it when they see an opportunity. practicing "Forms" also trains the muscle that you need. It maybe useless but it will let you understand the logic of what each move can do to a body. MMA fighter if in a real world like other said would be useless if gloves are taken off. People and yell at another person ears to disable them. Finger to the eye, nose and punch to the mouth would disable them. Humans have way to many weakness and "forms" is a way to teach where to kit such weakness
 
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