Martial Arts in the Military

I'm curious about this. Martial arts has always been shrouded with legends and myths, and it is often difficult to separate fact from fiction.

What was truly the importance of martial arts in the armies of ancient China? How much use was it in actual battle?

What role does it play in modern military?

I think there are two versions of martial arts in China: the fancy version we know about and the lethal one actual used by the military. The one we think about, like the Shaolin temple one and those fancy and complicated moves, can only be shown in performance. The one actually used in combat would be fast, simple and straight to the point. These would be easy to learn and easy to execute and usually takes only one to two moves to achieve the goal, which is to kill.

The one we normally hear about and see in movies is more like an art and playing a chess. You make a move and I will counter it with another move. It's more like to see who is more knowledgeable and can come up with better moves.

solarz said:

I'm curious about this. Martial arts has always been shrouded with legends and myths, and it is often difficult to separate fact from fiction.

What was truly the importance of martial arts in the armies of ancient China? How much use was it in actual battle?

What role does it play in modern military?

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I came across a similar conversation on another forum not so long ago, and although I thought martial arts may improve a fighter pilots situational awareness, concepts of spatiality, and all that, the general opinion among serving military personel involved in the conversation was , the most beneficial training is what resembles combat while another experienced practioner of martial arts had suggested "The vast majority of these TMAs (kung fu, karate, aikido, tae kwon do, Japanese jiu-jitsu etc) simply do not build effective fighters, because of their concentration on practicing with pre-arranged techniques or on non-resisting opponents"

bladerunner said:

...the most beneficial training is what resembles combat while another experienced practioner of martial arts had suggested "The vast majority of these TMAs (kung fu, karate, aikido, tae kwon do, Japanese jiu-jitsu etc) simply do not build effective fighters, because of their concentration on practicing with pre-arranged techniques or on non-resisting opponents"

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I don't think that they will actually use any of the specific moves in an actual fight. I think what those moves mainly do is to build muscle memory and allow the practitioners to make fast and powerful moves when faced with opponents.

bladerunner said:

"The vast majority of these TMAs (kung fu, karate, aikido, tae kwon do, Japanese jiu-jitsu etc) simply do not build effective fighters, because of their concentration on practicing with pre-arranged techniques or on non-resisting opponents"

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I'd say that's more of a criticism of HOW these martial arts are being taught, rather than the martial art itself.

The one we think about, like the Shaolin temple one and those fancy and complicated moves, can only be shown in performance.

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There is actual historical evidence that Shaolin martial monks participated in the military.

solarz said:

There is actual historical evidence that Shaolin martial monks participated in the military.

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Yes, but I doubt they used the same kind of styles shown in their performances. There were fancy "show-off" moves and there were "kill" moves. Similarly, the moves we normally see in those PLA videos with flying kicks and stuff most likely are fancy show-off moves. The actual moves used in the field would be a lot less fancy and more to the point.

Here's something I saw on the history channel about Sanda supposed to be practiced by the Chinese army.

Indeed! Sanda is considered to be one of the "practical" forms of Martial Arts and emphasizes flexibility over form. Yuefei supposedly had his own form of Sanshou that he instructed his troops. Training soldiers in hand to hand will increase their coordination, strength, alertness as well as make them more aggressive and battle ready. However I think martial arts trainings are more important for the Chinese paramilitary. They routinely train brick breaking and focus more on hand-to-hand combat than the PLA.

It makes me wonder why there are so many kung fu styles if all they can do are "fancy moves". Seriously, there weren't that many Wushu performers in ancient China.

solarz said:

It makes me wonder why there are so many kung fu styles if all they can do are "fancy moves". Seriously, there weren't that many Wushu performers in ancient China.

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Well keep in mind that martial arts is more than just fighting. Fighting is about gaining the upper hand regardless of what moves you use. Classical Chinese martial arts include less than graceful moves like groin attacks, eye jabbing, and throat crushing and they were, as a matter of fact, very useful on the battlefield. However I really don't think those moves are good for sparring events or kungfu cinema :roll::roll::roll:.

Many kungfu practitioners practice Kungfu with health benefits and spirituality in mind. It really doesn't matter how "deadly" the moves are as long as they get good exercise practicing them .