Marocco may buy Rafale Fighters

Twix101 · Jun 7, 2006

Marocco may buy 18 Rafale French Fighters with Saudi money.

Link (in French):

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Translation:

"(Cercle Finance)-Dassault Group could be close to sell 18 Rafale Fighter Plane to Marocco. La Tribune new paper indicate that this morning based on industrial sources. The Marocco's army could be the first export customer of the Dassault Aviation's Rafale. It will be an important stage after the failure of negocations with Netherlands, South Korea and Singapour.

The negociation is realized with Saudi Arabia accorded to La Tribune newspaper which will assure the financing for planes to Marocco. This negociation will permit to partialy balance the deception due to the Eurofighter Saudi Order. This command will come along at the good time in a good political environment."

SteelBird · Jun 7, 2006

Good news for Dassault! My questions are:

1). There has yet been any sale up to now. Correct me if I'm wrong.
2). Is Rafale considered as 4th gen fighter? A chinese news papers posted by swimmer suggested that Rafale is 3.5th gen.
3). Will French air force eventually induct Rafale?

Gollevainen · Jun 7, 2006

1). There has yet been any sale up to now. Correct me if I'm wrong.
2). Is Rafale considered as 4th gen fighter? A chinese news papers posted by swimmer suggested that Rafale is 3.5th gen.
3). Will French air force eventually induct Rafale?

1) Not to my knowlidge
2) The generation of fighter aircradft is bit of line drew to water, but in generally Rafale is considered as a 4.5 generation, not 3.5. In french own termilogy, Rafale is fift gen. Mysteré being the first, Mirage III/5 seccond, Mirage F1 third, Mirage 2000 fourht and now rafale..
3) yeas

Twix101 · Jun 7, 2006

Abou the generation of the fighter, it depend of the standard of the plane, the standard F-1 is restricted to A2A role without OSF (IRST, very good performances for A2A combat) and MICA IR, only MICA EM and Magic II, it looks like a Mirage 2000-5 with better FOV and manoeuvrability.

The standard F2 introduces A2G role, with French GPS Guided Bombs (AASM) and LACM (Storm Shadow-SCALP EG in the French Army), the Radar can work in A2G and A2A at the same time (thanks to the electronic array), in for Air superiority, the radar got a longer range, it include a second radar, the OSF, the OSF can track target, and the pilots can fire MICA IR (Infra red variant of the MICA, deadly missile), the result is no emission of any Radar wave only passive engagement the OSF also work in A2G but the Rafale will use the Damoclès designation Pod, the Spectra is updated. The Rafale can do air refueling (called buddy-buddy) with a specific pod.

Standard F3 add the nuclear, Air-to-Sea and Recon capability, it can fire the ASMP-A Nuke Missile, the AM-39 Exocet missile and use no reco NG Nacelle, after the pilot get a HMS, the TopSight comparable to the US JHMCS, the Spectra EW system is also updated.

The last Standard is the F3+, the plane receives a new AESA radar, a upgraded OSF, the OSF mkII and Spectra receives complementary modules. The Rafale can use the Meteor missile. It definitely becomes a 5th gen Fighter at this stage.

tphuang · Jun 7, 2006

Twix101 said:
Abou the generation of the fighter, it depend of the standard of the plane, the standard F-1 is restricted to A2A role without OSF (IRST, very good performances for A2A combat) and MICA IR, only MICA EM and Magic II, it looks like a Mirage 2000-5 with better FOV and manoeuvrability.

The standard F2 introduces A2G role, with French GPS Guided Bombs (AASM) and LACM (Storm Shadow-SCALP EG in the French Army), the Radar can work in A2G and A2A at the same time (thanks to the electronic array), in for Air superiority, the radar got a longer range, it include a second radar, the OSF, the OSF can track target, and the pilots can fire MICA IR (Infra red variant of the MICA, deadly missile), the result is no emission of any Radar wave only passive engagement the OSF also work in A2G but the Rafale will use the Damoclès designation Pod, the Spectra is updated. The Rafale can do air refueling (called buddy-buddy) with a specific pod.

Standard F3 add the nuclear, Air-to-Sea and Recon capability, it can fire the ASMP-A Nuke Missile, the AM-39 Exocet missile and use no reco NG Nacelle, after the pilot get a HMS, the TopSight comparable to the US JHMCS, the Spectra EW system is also updated.

The last Standard is the F3+, the plane receives a new AESA radar, a upgraded OSF, the OSF mkII and Spectra receives complementary modules. The Rafale can use the Meteor missile. It definitely becomes a 5th gen Fighter at this stage.

well the most important part of a 5th generation plane is the matter of stealth. AESA radar, upgraded avionics, supercruise are all great, but without stealth, it's not 5th generation. But yeah, to Chinese, generation 3.5 is 4.5 for the West. That's because it pretty much skipped the 3rd generation.

crazyinsane105 · Jun 7, 2006

The Saudis are paying for this plane? Why would the Saudis do that? I wasn't aware that Morroco and Saudia Arabia were strategic allies of any sort.

planeman · Jun 7, 2006

Algeria also looks like a likely customer (irrespective of their recent Su-30 order)

Twix101 · Jun 7, 2006

tphuang said:
well the most important part of a 5th generation plane is the matter of stealth. AESA radar, upgraded avionics, supercruise are all great, but without stealth, it's not 5th generation. But yeah, to Chinese, generation 3.5 is 4.5 for the West. That's because it pretty much skipped the 3rd generation.

The Stealth will come progressively with the constant upgrade of SPECTRA, this system is very advanced, several Billion $ were invested in this system for the development.

tphuang · Jun 7, 2006

Twix101 said:
The Stealth will come progressively with the constant upgrade of SPECTRA, this system is very advanced, several Billion $ were invested in this system for the development.

Rafale is not a stealth aircraft and it's not going to be one unless it gets a redesign in its airframe. You can improve your RAM and active cancellation technology as much as you want, but F-35/22 is going to have all of that plus a stealth airframe + engine.

planeman · Jun 7, 2006

tphuang said:
You can improve your RAM and active cancellation technology as much as you want, but F-35/22 is going to have all of that plus a stealth airframe + engine.

No, if RAM and/or Active cancellation can be made sufficiently effective then the air vehicle does, by definition, become stealth irrespective of its shape. Also, what do you mean about the F-35's engine being stealth?

Marocco may buy Rafale Fighters

Twix101

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Gollevainen

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