Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

tphuang · Mar 6, 2007

bd popeye said:
Thanks Jeff!

My son saw a USN demo DVD on the LCS. Lets just say he was impressed. Most impressive to him is the module that will carry up to 200 cruise missiles. That comming from a sonar tech! I would love to see that disc. But I know it's classified.

Gerry, are you sure about this?
I'm looking at this picture.

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I'm guessing you would put the modules between the main gun and the bridge, but that doesn't seem to be large enough to fit 200 though.

I have to say that the GD design looks so much cleaner and stealthier and prettier than the LM design.

I think according to the latest article I read, the GD LCS is about 60% complete?

Jeff Head said:
I had not heard of repairs already being required. The second NSC being built by Northrop Gruman certainly has not been put on any kind of stop order to my knoweldge, which they would do if there werre such deficienceis in the first one.

The first National Security Cutter (NSC), USCGC Bertholf, was built at the Northrop Grumman Ship Systems (NGSS) Ingalls Operations in Pascagoula, Miss.

[qimg]http://www.uscg.mil/Deepwater/images/sept06/WMSL750092206med.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.uscg.mil/Deepwater/images/oct06/WMSL750launchmed.jpg[/qimg]

Eight are planned to be built. They displace 4,300 tons, have a CODAG propulsion, are armed with a 57mm main gun, carry two helos, or up to four VUAVs, or a mix of one helo and two VUAVs, have a close in weapons system (RAM or VLS cells), are outfitted with a small boat package, and have enhancied interoperability between Coast Guard and US Navy.

I'm wondering, why doesn't USN convert some of the older ships into ships for the coast guard? I'm not sure the feasibility of this, but I know China has been doing it with old 053Hs.

Jeff Head · Mar 6, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

tphuang said:
I'm wondering, why doesn't USN convert some of the older ships into ships for the coast guard? I'm not sure the feasibility of this, but I know China has been doing it with old 053Hs.

I can't say tphuang. The Spruance Class destroyers would have been excellent for this, or simply for keeping in the reserve fleet, particularly the advanced, VLS variants. Instead, almost all of them are being sunk with a lot of service life left in them.

bd popeye · Mar 7, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

Tphuang, I'm pretty sure about this. I saw Rep Hunter on Tv basically having an orgasm when the USN announced that the first flight(squadron) of LCS would be homeported in San Diego...It may have been on 2005 vice 2006...

adeptitus · Mar 7, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

The US Coast Guard service has been operating with 30-40 year old WHEC's and WMEC's, I think they deserve some new ships once in a while! If you tried to give them 20+ year old decommsioned USN ships I think they might've objected.

Jeff Head · Mar 7, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

adeptitus said:
The US Coast Guard service has been operating with 30-40 year old WHEC's and WMEC's, I think they deserve some new ships once in a while! If you tried to give them 20+ year old decommsioned USN ships I think they might've objected.

I don't...the Spruance class was a very capable vessel. The latest construction had upwards of twenty years service life left. Many nations would have paid significant monmey for that class of warships. Fast, quiet, and the ADCAP versions with the VLS were very robust.

Anyhow, it is a moot topic now. These new LCS are being desinged specifically to work hand in hand with the US Coast Guard and other nations coast guards as required...and that is a good segway back into the LCS which is the topic of the thread anyway. Sorry to have become distracted.

tphuang · Mar 9, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

so, there has been some news recently about USN wanting to cancel the order for the 2nd LCS from Lockheed. So, I guess if they do this, then GD is the winner of the competition by default?

bd popeye · Mar 9, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

tphuang said:
so, there has been some news recently about USN wanting to cancel the order for the 2nd LCS from Lockheed. So, I guess if they do this, then GD is the winner of the competition by default?

I just read that story in a ezboard discussion. I think the CNO is tired of cost over runs etc. "L-M" will get the boot if they can't find a solution to the problem. Assumbaly the USN would then go with the "G-D" design. But the G-D design is also under scruinty for cost over runs.

U.S. Navy weighs termination of Lockheed ship

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By Andrew Gray
REUTERS

11:43 a.m. March 8, 2007

WASHINGTON – The Navy is considering terminating the construction of a shore-hugging ship being built by Lockheed Martin Corp. due to cost overruns, Navy chief Adm. Mike Mullen said Thursday.

In January, the Navy took the unusual step of ordering Lockheed to halt work for 90 days on the littoral combat ship (LCS) because of soaring costs.

Mullen said Navy Secretary Donald Winter would decide in the next couple of weeks on a plan for the ship, known as LCS-3 as it is the third in line to be constructed.

Lockheed was ordered to stop work because of cost overruns on the first of the new ships, LCS-1, which the company is also building. General Dynamics Corp. is building the second and fourth ships.

“We've got to sort out where we are before we make a decision on whether or not we continue LCS-3,” Mullen, the Navy's top military officer, said at a breakfast meeting with defense reporters.

“In the next couple of weeks Secretary Winter will make a decision on how to proceed with respect to the program, including ... whether to move to a termination or to continue the program for LCS-3,” he said.

Asked how seriously the Navy was considering termination, Mullen said, “All options are on the table right now.”

He added, “I couldn't tell you which way it's going to go at this point. I really don't know.”

The Navy has said the first Lockheed LCS ship will cost $350 million to $375 million, far above initial estimates of $220 million for each of the new ships.

Lockheed spokesman Craig Quigley said the company was working closely with the Navy to help analyze the cost overruns on LCS-1 and was hopeful of resuming work on LCS-3.

“We want to get back to work,” Quigley said. “We're sure hopeful that we can.”

The Navy eventually wants to buy about 55 of the ships, designed to operate in shallow waters to hunt for submarines and destroy underwater mines.

The Navy said last week that the LCS being built by General Dynamics is also expected to face cost overruns, although the scope of the overruns is not yet clear.

Jeff Head · Mar 9, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
I just read that story in a ezboard discussion. I think the CNO is tired of cost over runs etc. "L-M" will get the boot if they can't find a solution to the problem. Assumbaly the USN would then go with the "G-D" design. But the G-D design is also under scruinty for cost over runs.

I would be surprised...no, shocked, if Lockheed Martin got the boot.

My guess is that there are cost overruns for sure, but that there are also increased costs due to "mission creep" and increased capability requests/requirements. I believe the Navy is posturing to get as much out of Lockheed (and GD too) as they can in coming to terms with both.

But make no mistake, the US Navy is hinging huge hopes and a big future on the success of the LCS program and ultimately on its availablity. Some middle ground, some negotiated settlement that factors in both the best price and the requirements will be arrived at IMHO. If this program were cancelled, it would creat a huge hole in the US Navy's plans for the future...and set things back in that regard several years.

bd popeye · Mar 10, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

If this program were cancelled, it would creat a huge hole in the US Navy's plans for the future...and set things back in that regard several years.

Jeff, I don't think the USN would cancel the program. The USN has too much of it's future force invested in this ship.

I really don't understand why the decision was not made some time ago on which design to go with. If the USN cancels LCS-3 and keeps LCS-1. Then goes strictly with the GD design they would be stuck with a "bastard" ship in LSC-1.

Jeff Head · Mar 10, 2007

Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
Jeff, I don't think the USN would cancel the program. The USN has too much of it's future force invested in this ship.

I really don't understand why the decision was not made some time ago on which design to go with. If the USN cancels LCS-3 and keeps LCS-1. Then goes strictly with the GD design they would be stuck with a "bastard" ship in LSC-1.

My own personal feeling is that the decision had already been made to build quite a few of each ship. Though they are geared towards the same mission, each design as some unique capabilities that the Navy wants out to sea...and it keeps more shipyards going.

But that is just my own opinion.

I believe at this point that it is clear that the US Navy has invested itself completely in the Surface Combatant 21 strategy which included the DDX, (now called DD-1000) the CGX, and the LCS. Cancelling the LCS would put a huge hole in that overall plan and the ability (viewed as absolutely critical in this day and age) to extend naval warfighting capability into the littorals.

They will negotiate with and put pressure on both Lockheed and General Dynamics to lower costs as much as possible while still meeting the increased requirements. Its a lot of posturing and negotiations, which is understandable, with, unfortunately, far too much politics sprinkled in. But, when has that ever been different?

Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

tphuang

Lieutenant General

Jeff Head

General

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

adeptitus

Captain

Jeff Head

General

tphuang

Lieutenant General

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

Jeff Head

General

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

Jeff Head

General