Lecture - Red Flag 2008

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Pointblank

Senior Member
crobato said:
The counter from Bharat-Rakshak

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Page. 19 posted by shiv

On Ex Red Flag-the You Tube video- The other side of the Coin!!
Posted by: *** ***
Date: Wed Nov 5, 2008 11:51 pm ((PST))

These are comments by a friend of mine-one of our top grade professional youngsters, and a participant in the recently concluded Red Flag Ex in Nellis AFB.

1. No 1vs1s were flown during the Flag,nor did they engage in Thrust Vectoring(TV) then.IvIs were flown during the sorties in Mountain Home AFB and that too on the first day only! In none of these ex were the Su ever shot down or become vulnerable(This can of course be checked on the ACMI Pod films/casettes).

2.The data rates of turn and TV with regard to the Su is grossly out- the ones on the F-22 may be closer to the truth!! The figures for the Su are very much more than that referred to in the video!!

3.The Radar of the F-22 is superior to the Su presently!

4.Fratricide by our side did take place, more due to not being networked-it occurred when the AWACS was not available(u/s) and a very poor standard of controlling by USAF controllers( terminology and accent).This was mentioned in the debrief.Surprisingly, Fratricide was present for the F-15C as well as other allied A/C. Considering that they were better networked( Link-16,IFF-Mode 4 etc), while we had nothing,it should be a matter of concern for them and not us!!

5.FOD-Take-Off separation-was 30" at Mountain Home but extended to 1min and known to all participants before the start of the Ex!!

6.Incidentally,Mission achievement ratio was higher than 90%, whereas the mission success rates were significantly lower for the USAF, inspite of us op some 20000 kms away!!

7.Our level of experience was a standard Sqn cross-section and our youngsters performed very well in the new environment and not one rule was violated.Our professional approach was very favourably commented upon.

8. In the ultimate analyses, we had a significant edge all throughout and retained it.

It appears that this video was to pep up the US industry, showing that the F-22 is the answer to the Su-30MKI and one never knows-this will be the pitch for larger orders!!
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This tirade pretty much shoots that professionalism apart; that email - if truly from an Indian Air Force pilot - is highly disappointing. Why? Because it shows a lack of humbleness, and an inability to learn from these failures.

You don't go to Red Flag to strut around like peacock, you go to get your butt kicked and to learn from the mistakes. That's the entire point: you don't have second chances in real combat, so learn from your otherwise deadly mistakes in a training scenario.

So they weren't invincible. GOOD! They weren't suppose to be. Everything that went wrong should have been thoroughly documented, reviewed, and improved upon. It does the Indians no good to attend these events, if this is the attitude they'll walk away with. They failed to digest and understand why they failed, which will come back to bite them in a real conflict if this attitude is not correct, fast. Making weak excuses for their failures and brushing off criticism is not the way to run a military. This pilot, if this e-mail is actually from a Indian Air Force pilot, should be disciplined and removed from the flight line immediately for a period of time to drill home this message. This e-mail is in poor form and demonstrates a lack of ability to learn and accept criticism.

The presenter in that video did a very fair assessment; he was very gracious to the Indians, and praised their skills. On the flip side, however, he was also realistic about their mistakes. The Indians made significant mistakes during Red Flag; they best learn from them or else they will be doomed to repeat them, and this time, real missiles and bullets will be flying, not simulated ones. Simulated kills will become real kills, with people dying.

This response just screams to me a failure to learn from mistakes; any half decent military will ensure that they study their mistakes in complete detail in order to learn from them and to not make the same mistake again.
 
crobato

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Thank you. I like to see what you view of the response. I was starting to have a feeling its becoming a cylindrical body part contest.
 
I

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Pointblank said:
This tirade pretty much shoots that professionalism apart; that email - if truly from an Indian Air Force pilot - is highly disappointing. Why? Because it shows a lack of humbleness, and an inability to learn from these failures.
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I watched the video with the US fighter pilot talking about this air force event, and this US fighter was cocky, too, and so was his audience. Both the e-mail and youtube videos showed two competitive and proud people. Each side claimed clear superiority over the opposing side. I am sure each side will learn from this event, but first, each side is bragging about themselves. It is a natural part of competition.
 
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I

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Have you guys checked out this forum and all its pdf files and links about the F-22? The forum is a forum for Europeans talking about how the Eurofighter is actually superior than the F-22 except when it comes to stealth and low-speed maneuvers. The Europeans and their sources even stated that the F-22's stealth is overrated and low-speed maneuvers are bad for air superiority. Low-speed maneuvers are best for bombers, attack jets, and other air-to-ground aircraft, but BAD for dogfighting.

Here is the link to the forum:
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crobato

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Infra_Man99 said:
I watched the video with the US fighter pilot talking about this air force event, and this US fighter was cocky, too, and so was his audience. Both the e-mail and youtube videos showed two competitive and proud people. Each side claimed clear superiority over the opposing side. I am sure each side will learn from this event, but first, each side is bragging about themselves. It is a natural part of competition.
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Just the fact that someone deliberately recorded that video and decided to post it on Youtube is definitely unprofessional---probably the most unprofessional thing I've seen yet, and you don't go into these meetings without being a person of interest. I would say the sheer fact that someone did this is even more unprofessional than Pointblank's still valid criticism of the professionalism behind the Indian email.
 
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