Ladakh Flash Point

siegecrossbow said:

This is very odd considering that even their own media owned up to the fact that at least ten Indian soldiers were captured last year. I guess the photo revealed that it was only the tip of the iceburg.

It does answer the question of why China released most of the captives almost immediately though. There is no way that Chinese logistics could support this many prisoners.

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The thing is MUCH more than 10 Indians were captured in June and who knows which other incidents.

The Indian has 10 units of "good" and pretend to have 100 and shouts about having 100. China has 100 and will keep quiet about it unless it is required for whatever strategic reason and maybe only release evidence of 10.

This is why China has WZ-8 flying around in active missions for years and then show it when it is required but it's not even the tip of the iceberg. And Indian meanwhile has nothing but powerpoint slides and has the shamelessness to say China's 2012 flying prototype of FC-31 is copied from their AMCA powerpoint slides. It's beyond shameless and pathetic.

Doesn't China already control everything up to its claims? It's india that has to make incursions

Just mine the claim line and be done with it. Peace in our time

What I am actually curious about is the incident last September where both sides reportedly exchanged warning fire. I wonder if there are footages of that incident. What I do know is that while there is no casualties, both sides are surprisingly tight lipped about it.

sndef888 said:

Doesn't China already control everything up to its claims? It's india that has to make incursions

Just mine the claim line and be done with it. Peace in our time

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In the west, China does for the most part, with some exceptions. In 1962, China captured most of the strategically important terrain, which allowed it to patrol in the remaining disputed areas far more than India until the creation of buffer zones over the past two years. In the east and middle sectors, it is india that mostly controls up to its claims.

sndef888 said:

Doesn't China already control everything up to its claims? It's india that has to make incursions

Just mine the claim line and be done with it. Peace in our time

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No. China controls about 80% of legacy dispute. 20% of it was sort of no man's land a thing left over from 1960s skirmishes. Indians patrolled it more and more. China built a road and India used that as a reason to also build within that 20%. India performed the moves in Jan 2020 when they thought China wouldn't respond due to Covid outbreak. That is the suspicion not established fact but it does line up with this standoff which only happened in early 2020.

In fact, I really don't like the Chinese government's current policy toward India, especially in the media. The Chinese government always responds passively and never takes the initiative, even when he wins.

twineedle said:

In the west, China does for the most part, with some exceptions. In the east and middle sectors, it is india that mostly controls up to its claims.

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LOL not even close.

India's claims up to the very most eastern edges of Aksai Chin.

India currently control nothing within the 20%. Position is not control. China controls Aksai Chin and there are no Indians inside Aksai Chin. India controls nothing but has presence within 20% just like China has presence within 20% but doesn't control it either. Buffer negotiations for Pangong and parts of Galwan only succeeded because Chinese presence was unable to be changed by Indians and the matter became such a high profile thing for Modi he was constantly attacked by opposition.

Stop bending the truths. India currently controls 0% of legacy dispute with some presence in small sections of 20% (not Pangong or Galwan) whereas China controls 80% (Aksai Chin) of legacy dispute and has some presence in small sections of 20% just like with the Indians. It remains to be seen how each presence can become translated into a buffer. Once it does, India loses Aksai Chin and the buffer while China loses the buffer. The upside for China is that it secures control of 80% and normalises this while also having the benefit of not needing to deal with Indian patrols in the 20% and potential escalations. The upside for India doesn't exist as it loses 100% of its claims.

ougoah said:

LOL not even close.

India's claims up to the very most eastern edges of Aksai Chin.

India currently control nothing within the 20%. Position is not control. China controls Aksai Chin and there are no Indians inside Aksai Chin. India controls nothing but has presence within 20% just like China has presence within 20% but doesn't control it either. Buffer negotiations for Pangong and parts of Galwan only succeeded because Chinese presence was unable to be changed by Indians and the matter became such a high profile thing for Modi he was constantly attacked by opposition.

Stop bending the truths. India currently controls 0% of legacy dispute with some presence in small sections of 20% (not Pangong or Galwan) whereas China controls 80% (Aksai Chin) of legacy dispute and has some presence in small sections of 20% just like with the Indians. It remains to be seen how each presence can become translated into a buffer. Once it does, India loses Aksai Chin and the buffer while China loses the buffer. The upside for China is that it secures control of 80% and normalises this while also having the benefit of not needing to deal with Indian patrols in the 20% and potential escalations. The upside for India doesn't exist as it loses 100% of its claims.

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I think you misunderstood me. By East, I mean Arunachal. The middle sector is uttarakhand and himachal. Aksai chin is considered west. This is how the LAC is officially defined.

Also India is still within Galwan, and the entirety of Galwan is considered part of the 20%. Didn't we discuss this already? The buffer in Galwan is only a very small portion of the valley.

twineedle said:

I think you misunderstood me. By East, I mean Arunachal. The middle sector is uttarakhand and himachal. Aksai chin is considered west. This is how the LAC is officially defined

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Yeah I didn't realise you were referring to AP. AP is Indian controlled because it is Indian. China has never had sovereignty over AP. AP towns have always been Assamese/Bhutanese/Indian and so on. Never in the history of humankind has China as an entity whether Imperial China, Republic of China or People's Republic of China has "China" ever administered the whole of AP. NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE (to the Chinese who insist otherwise!). Anyway this is a grey area and not as clear as Aksai Chin (AC) which is certainly Chinese and never was Indian no matter what "India" we talk about... Mughals, British India, or "independent" India.

China claims the chunk of AP (definition varies but the disputed section can be seen in Google maps I'm sure you know but for readers) since 1960s after India claimed Aksai Chin. It was used as leverage and China always offered China's claim on AP to be dropped if India drops India's claim of Aksai Chin.

China uses its claim of AP to leverage on the real dispute situation which is AC. When India makes moves of AC, China might sometimes inflame AP. It's just one of those, since you claim my land, I will claim some of yours until you drop your claims. Of course India to this day has refused to drop its claim on AC which was "given" to it by the British who themselves didn't administer the claimed land during British India.

Imagine that? British India not administering a piece of land and then having the arrogance to draw borders as they leave the place they brutalised.

And yet India (after Brits leave) insist on that borderline the Brit criminals drew for the two of us? Of course they do though. The Indian elites think they're country club dwelling Brits pretty much and the line the Brits drew give India huge swathes of Chinese land.

siegecrossbow said:

This is very odd considering that even their own media owned up to the fact that at least ten Indian soldiers were captured last year. I guess the photo revealed that it was only the tip of the iceburg.

It does answer the question of why China released most of the captives almost immediately though. There is no way that Chinese logistics could support this many prisoners.

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Or Indians do not bother count the expended cannon fodder and dalit. Hence the low number.