JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[timepass]

JF-17 Block 3 Begins Initial Production; New Fighter to Revolutionize Pakistani Capabilities...

Chief designer of the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet Yang Wei, also developer of the

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, reported in a press conference in early March 2019 that production of an advanced new variant of the combat jet, the

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, has been initiated. “All related work is being carried out… the third block will see the JF-17’s informatized warfare capability and weapons upgraded,” he stated.

The aircraft is being developed under a joint venture between the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation, and production of the fighter in Pakistan is expected to be established at a later date much as it did with the Block I and Block II variants. The new fighter is set to revolutionise Pakistani aerial warfare capabilities, incorporating an advanced active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar (possibly the Chinese made KLJ-7A), new electronic warfare systems, a new fly by wire digital flight control system, a new helmet mounted display and access to a

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.

This are reported to include new longer ranged and more sophisticated air to air munitions, the PL-15 according to some reports, and possibly more advanced variants of the PL-12, which will considerably enhance the aircraft’s performance in air to air combat.

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[Dizasta1]

Whatever the case, the quality and performance of the aircraft is equally dependent on the quality and training standard of an air force. Forgive the expression, but unless your flying a Raptor into a war theater. The odds of mediocre trained pilots winning air battles, are slim. So you can go into a war zone with Rafales, Flankers and whatever else you can buy. But it is the superiority of pilot training which would determine the course of the battle. With a Raptor, you can have a dimwit in the cockpit, and still win the air battle. Sadly for india, Raptor procurement is out of the question.

Pakistan Air Force does not just buy combat aircraft based on what the brochure says. Every single aspect of their operational posture is taken into account, like any sensible air force in world. Of course with an economy like ours, where decades of plundering by swines who call themselves politicians, has almost decimated the country. Every procurement goes under an electron microscope. So Pakistan Air Force's biggest strength is that it takes every aspect of its operations, seriously.

J-10CE is undoubtedly an excellent fighter. But for Pakistan Air Force to procure a new aircraft, it is the aircraft that has to conform to Pakistan Air Force's fighting style, operational tempo and most of all have a solid logistics base. It would take time with pilot training, further tweaking of the aircraft to be compatible with Pakistan Air Force's mode of operations. By the time J -10CEs do get fully inducted and are combat ready, PAF's fighter pilots would have to be well versed in J-10CE's performance characteristics. Whether Pakistan Air Force wants to diverted this much man power, money and time toward the induction of a new fighter jet type, is entirely dependent on how much J -10CE has to offer in terms of exceptional capabilities. This is where the quality and power of it's AESA radars, its EW Jammers, would come into play. Whether it's PL-12s, or PL-15s would really have the NEZ that the latest generation BVRAAM's tout. Another capability would also come into play, although it is uncertain whether the TVN would actually be available for export or whether TVN engines are meant for the aircraft. Because if they are made available to Pakistan Air Force, then this would be one capability that PAF fighter pilots will relish to exploit and master.

In the end, the decision rests with Pakistan Air Force and it alone.

 

[Gloire_bb]

With a Raptor, you can have a dimwit in the cockpit, and still win the air battle.

And here f-22 is starting to get some mythological qualities.
No, it is not capable of that.

 

[Ali Qizilbash]

With a Raptor, you can have a dimwit in the cockpit, and still win the air battle.

Pardon me but I would assume that a dim wit will not be able to get in Raptor cockpit in the first place. I am basing my assumption on USAF selection procedures relating to their most valuable elite fighter.

So the argument of a dim wit winning an air battle inside an F22 is just a wish full thinking at best.

 

[Equation]

Here's a good move that promotes the J/F-17. "Sher Dil 2019"

 

[MastanKhan]

Here's a good move that promotes the J/F-17. "Sher Dil 2019"

Hi,

That was a terrible setup and a terrible scene---. It was filmed with the mentality of the 60's / 70's---.

 

[Biscuits]

Hi,

That was a terrible setup and a terrible scene---. It was filmed with the mentality of the 60's / 70's---.

Given the youth of the Pakistani movie industry, it’s good that they’re training themselves. Like, if you are expecting sky hunter or dunkirk levels of CGI, that’s more than a bit unrealistic. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Dizasta1]

And here f-22 is starting to get some mythological qualities.
No, it is not capable of that.

There is no "mythological" quality for F-22. My remark was to imply the level of computing power which the Raptor has, bringing together aperture system, air-to-air radar, engine management system, information sharing to create a "God's Eye" view of the battle space, making air combat so clutter free, that the fighter pilots can solely concentrate on the important aspect of air combat, which is decision making and formulating tactics to win the air war.

 

[Dizasta1]

Pardon me but I would assume that a dim wit will not be able to get in Raptor cockpit in the first place. I am basing my assumption on USAF selection procedures relating to their most valuable elite fighter.

So the argument of a dim wit winning an air battle inside an F22 is just a wish full thinking at best.

The dimwit remark is to highlight the technological leap which America achieved with the Raptor and Lightning lls. So much so, that in the unlikeliest of cases where a dimwit were to sit in a Raptor, with basic flying knowledge, would be able to take advantage of Raptor's capability and perhaps win an air battle. Of course, in reality, would not happen.

 

[plawolf]

Anyways, coming back on topic, a key factor in the PAF’s love of the JF17, and the slow progress of the J10C deal, is the fact that the JF17 was tailor made to PAF requirements in a way the J10C could never be.

Chinese fighters have tended to prioritise energy efficiency due to China’s long-standing weakness in turbofan engines. That means Chinese pilots prefer slash and dash combat tactics.

PAF pilots and combat tactics OTOH, which have bee focused primarily around the F16, tend to favour the turn and burn style in which the F16 is unmatched in its weight class.

As such, if it adopted the J10, not only would the PAF need to add the logistical and financial burden of maintaining a new fighter type, it would also need to effectively develop a new way of fighting, which I think is the key issue.

That is likely also a reason for the delay with the Blk3 - the JF17 was always meant to the the low end of a hi-lo mix. Before, the hi end was taken by the F16, with the J10C originally planned to take over in the medium term. However, now instead the PAF is wanting the JF17 to be able to effectively stand in parity to the F16, if not even above it to be competitive against MKIs and Rafales. That is a massive expansion of the design scope, and an extremely challenging requirement given the size disparity, as such as delays is hardly surprising.