JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
The only way a block I or II Thunder could make use of the PL-15 is if it was being guided by an AWACS... There is no way the PAF and China integrated this missile into our AWACS platforms this fast. It doesn't make any s
Are we certain that 'Link-17' is indeed operational and can practically be employed to fire a missile that, as far as we know, haven't been tested on FC-1?

Highly unlikely. This is why this news never made sense. It would've required AWACS integration and there's no way the PAF did that already.
 

Aliusman

New Member
Registered Member
Are we certain that 'Link-17' is indeed operational and can practically be employed to fire a missile that, as far as we know, haven't been tested on FC-1?
Link-17 has been operational for three years now. I seriously doubt that PL-15 is operational in such short instance of time. IAF already has a bloody nose with PAF’s current JF-17 inventory. Really no need right now for PL-15 until Meteor is operational on future IAF Rafaels.
 

azretonov

Junior Member
Registered Member
Link-17 has been operational for three years now
Do we have a solid proof to support this though? I came by a few articles citing to secondary sources' claims and a fine photograph of multiples screens from some alleged PAF HQ, one labeled as L-17.
 

Zahid

Junior Member
Given the timing, if such a delivery of PL15s took place, those would have been units pulled from the PLAAF’s own stocks, as not even China could manufacture a hundred advanced missiles in a few day’s notice.

Such a move is not without precedent in Sino-Pakistan relations, and I think a lot of people forget that and only considers such sales from a purely commercial POV, in which case it would indeed not make much sense for China.

Beyond the special relationship, China also have additional self-interest motivations for making such a delivery to Pakistan, chief of which would be to prevent all out war from breaking out between India and Pakistan.

Pakistani nuclear posture and policy is pretty much the same as that of NATO’s during the Cold War, which is to use tactical nukes to blunt the conventional military advantage of the enemy.

The only way to shot-circuit that escalation step would be to help Pakistan hold off Indian forces using conventional means only.

If the IAF suddenly started being on the receiving end of PL15s over Pakistan, beyond the material losses those missiles might inflict on IAF aircraft, a far more weighty message would be the strength of Chinese support and commitment to Pakistan in the face of an Indian invasion.

The unequivocal message to India would be that China would be prepared to do whatever is necessary to make sure Pakistan does not feel cornered enough to feel they have no choice but to use their nukes.

I personally believe that faced with the prospect of an all out nuclear war on its boarder that is perilously close to the source of many of China’s most important rivers and fresh water sources; Beijing would see a conventional war with India as very much the lesser of two evils.

From that standpoint, sending a hundred missiles really is loose change scale stuff.

However, if China did send those PL15s, I would expect there to be significant conditions attached in terms to secure storage and use limitations; as those would be PLAAF front line versions and not export models.

It could well be that those missiles are not sold or gifted, but rather loaned to the PAF, in which case they remain Chinese property, and potentially may be returned once tensions die down again.

If Pakistan can guarantee the physical security of those missiles when in storage, the risks to China of sending them are pretty manageable, since they would only give up useful SIGINT if they were actually fired.

When hanging off of aircraft, those missiles wouldn’t really give much away in terms of their capabilities or operating characteristic.

Sorry for OT:

After the US weapons sales embargo in the aftermath of 1965 Pakistan-India war, China offered & supplied J-6 (Mig-19 copy) free of charge. Only later did Chinese government give a hint that they expected payments for further shipments. This was 50 years ago. It was a great step for Pakistan-China relations. Plus Chinese had a ready market for their products that had no buyers elsewhere. PAF's employment of Chinese hardware was a stamp of approval. Induction of J-7 in PAF colors followed in late 80s, and many other airforces followed suit. JF-17 is a continuation of that legacy.

So, PAP fielding advanced Chinese AAMs is not an impossibility. But I do not consider claims credible. This may purely be information warfare at this stage.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Guys, give it time, regardless of what, it would be clear as daylight for all. PL-15 to Pakistan Air Force seems to be a natural match. And even though a lot of people place doubt, what's the point in arguing? If there people that underestimate the relations between Pakistan and China, then let them. Hubris is their own enemy, don't let be your's. Whichever way this goes, Pakistan Air Force has shown that it is capable as the best air forces there are, in the world. That too despite the budgetary constraints, political meddling and lobbying by eastern enemy. SD-10A or PL-15, China has Pakistan's deepest gratitude and a strong ally that make even a big power fumble n tumble in an air skirmish.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Guys, give it time, regardless of what, it would be clear as daylight for all. PL-15 to Pakistan Air Force seems to be a natural match. And even though a lot of people place doubt, what's the point in arguing? If there people that underestimate the relations between Pakistan and China, then let them. Hubris is their own enemy, don't let be your's. Whichever way this goes, Pakistan Air Force has shown that it is capable as the best air forces there are, in the world. That too despite the budgetary constraints, political meddling and lobbying by eastern enemy. SD-10A or PL-15, China has Pakistan's deepest gratitude and a strong ally that make even a big power fumble n tumble in an air skirmish.

I feel like it's echo chamber effect causing Pakistani members (especially those at PDF) to consider the results of that short exchange as indicative of comprehensive superiority in the air. That little tussle really shouldn't be used to show PAF as one of the best air forces in the world. I mean it could definitely be but using this as evidence? Come on... do we really think IAF threw its all into that hours long skirmish? I'm beginning to doubt any more drama will come out of this. IAF got its nose bloodied with the confirmed loss of a Mig-21 but now that's about it. They've managed to play the entire exchange off as a victory to their voters with the whole F-16 claim. Both sides sort of got what they aimed for, PAF defended its airspace and Modi got some pre-election drama. Whether it's the kind he wanted is a mystery for now. Ignore the posturing with the whole IN moving its carrier and subs around business. Harmless posturing (them announcing it almost guarantees they have no intention of escalating) ... although honestly could be a good sales opportunity for hardware.
 

Aliusman

New Member
Registered Member
Do we have a solid proof to support this though? I came by a few articles citing to secondary sources' claims and a fine photograph of multiples screens from some alleged PAF HQ, one labeled as L-17.

That PAF HQ is Combat Commander School (Pakistan's TOPGUN ) in Sargodha. Yes its been operational since 2016. Multiple PAF officers have said that in past few years. My batch mate who is a GDP also confirmed it. Work on Link-17 started just before first ZDK-03 came, back in 14-15 and was completed and operational in 2016. It was also mentioned in IDEAS 2016.

PS:
It is increasingly becoming the norm that some members ( NOT azretonov) can't accept anything good about JF-17 and go to lengths to disapprove any proof given for claims. For them I just wanna say , We are happy and confident with JF-17 and there is nothing you can do about that.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
I feel like it's echo chamber effect causing Pakistani members (especially those at PDF) to consider the results of that short exchange as indicative of comprehensive superiority in the air. That little tussle really shouldn't be used to show PAF as one of the best air forces in the world. I mean it could definitely be but using this as evidence? Come on... do we really think IAF threw its all into that hours long skirmish? I'm beginning to doubt any more drama will come out of this. IAF got its nose bloodied with the confirmed loss of a Mig-21 but now that's about it. They've managed to play the entire exchange off as a victory to their voters with the whole F-16 claim. Both sides sort of got what they aimed for, PAF defended its airspace and Modi got some pre-election drama. Whether it's the kind he wanted is a mystery for now. Ignore the posturing with the whole IN moving its carrier and subs around business. Harmless posturing (them announcing it almost guarantees they have no intention of escalating) ... although honestly could be a good sales opportunity for hardware.

Pakistan Air Force it's fellow services (Army, Navy & Intelligence) does not under estimate it's enemy. Yes it was a skirmish, yes india made a mess of it, but no as Pakistanis we do not regard it as end all, be all of conclusive air superiority. Anyone intelligent knows that the dynamics of military advantages constantly shift and change. Russian Federation, People's Republic of China and America have shown that such is the case. What can be said about Pakistan Air Force's performance in the skirmish, is that their training and hard work has been vindicated. It also proves that Pakistan Air Force must continue to strive for greater professionalism, improving fighting tactics and investing further in equipment, training and sharpening skills of all personnel.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Pakistan Air Force it's fellow services (Army, Navy & Intelligence) does not under estimate it's enemy. Yes it was a skirmish, yes india made a mess of it, but no as Pakistanis we do not regard it as end all, be all of conclusive air superiority. Anyone intelligent knows that the dynamics of military advantages constantly shift and change. Russian Federation, People's Republic of China and America have shown that such is the case. What can be said about Pakistan Air Force's performance in the skirmish, is that their training and hard work has been vindicated. It also proves that Pakistan Air Force must continue to strive for greater professionalism, improving fighting tactics and investing further in equipment, training and sharpening skills of all personnel.

True, but what Pakistan has done to India is got their spin doctors and news media all insecure for the world to see. If China would have done the kind of news media report like India has recently the West media would be all over it claiming state propaganda and such.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
latest developments

JF17 tested a satellite guided glide bomb like the US JDAM

however this has a much longer range due to its opening wings around 80km

its called Takbir Glide Bomb

word says last year 12 x Block II built and this year 14 x Block II, however Block III is now being fast tracked and all leave is still cancelled at at PAC

I hope we can see 1 x JF17 Block III flanked by 2 x JF17B on fly past in August, hopeful maybe
 
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