JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Dizasta1]

The continued delay could mean one of two things ...

1. There will be structural changes to the Thunder design. Something which doesn't warrant Block-lll to be defined as a new aircraft. Could possibly be something along the lines of what was done with the Super Hornets or Gripen-NG. It is plausible, the longer Block-llls takes, it can be more than plausible. Whether there is an engine change, remains to be seen. If there is an engine change, then it can explain structural changes. At best, a variant of WS-13 or RD-93MK-2.

2. Delays come due to lack of finances. Such delays were also rumored to have taken place with the Al-Khalid tank production. Even though HIT has the capacity to churn out greater number of tanks per month, it was rumored that lack of funding prevented it.

More likely scenario could be the latter rather than the former.

 

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The continued delay could mean one of two things ...

1. There will be structural changes to the Thunder design. Something which doesn't warrant Block-lll to be defined as a new aircraft. Could possibly be something along the lines of what was done with the Super Hornets or Gripen-NG. It is plausible, the longer Block-llls takes, it can be more than plausible. Whether there is an engine change, remains to be seen. If there is an engine change, then it can explain structural changes. At best, a variant of WS-13 or RD-93MK-2.

2. Delays come due to lack of finances. Such delays were also rumored to have taken place with the Al-Khalid tank production. Even though HIT has the capacity to churn out greater number of tanks per month, it was rumored that lack of funding prevented it.

More likely scenario could be the latter rather than the former.

or lack of suitable engine could be another possibility ....

BTW anyone have any knowledge about the current status of RD-93MA which was expected to be unveiled in 2019 ....

 

[Franklin]

The delay in my view is good. It most likely means considerable changes on the airframe. I have always hoped that the J-17 block III will get the J-10B treatment. The JF-17 was always a aircraft that was good enough rather than good. It's design was constrained by Pakistan's insistance on affordability and China's limited technical abilities back in the 1990's when the aircraft was developed. Now that both are out of the way there is no excuse to muddle along with the current airframe. The JF-17 block III needs to be a plane that atleast on paper should be able to give the SU-30MKI Flankers, upgraded MiG-29 Fulcrum's, Dassault Rafale's and whatever India is planning to buy maybe the Gripen E/F or the upgraded F-16's a run for its money. Otherwise what is the point. Having the old airframe in place with some upgraded sub-systems will be a huge disappointment for me.

 

[Deino]

The delay in my view is good. It most likely means considerable changes on the airframe. I have always hoped that the J-17 block III will get the J-10B treatment. The JF-17 was always a aircraft that was good enough rather than good. It's design was constrained by Pakistan's insistance on affordability and China's limited technical abilities back in the 1990's when the aircraft was developed. Now that both are out of the way there is no excuse to muddle along with the current airframe. The JF-17 block III needs to be a plane that atleast on paper should be able to give the SU-30MKI Flankers, upgraded MiG-29 Fulcrum's, Dassault Rafale's and whatever India is planning to buy maybe the Gripen E/F or the upgraded F-16's a run for its money. Otherwise what is the point. Having the old airframe in place with some upgraded sub-systems will be a huge disappointment for me.

Honestly, NO, it does not ... it could - and IMO most likely - simply mean that there are delays. Therefore given the most reliable report I've read so far and not counting any fancy fan-boys stories at the PDF concerning a larger wing with MORE stores, a redesigned front-fuselage with stealthy shaping, larger intakes and a wider fuselage for a much more powerful engine and most of all an AESA radar better or equivalent to the F-35's one, I expect no dramatic changes. It will be an evolutional step from Block 2 to Block 3 similar as Block 2 evolved from Block 1. Consequently I fully agree with You...

The continued delay could mean one of two things ...

1. There will be structural changes to the Thunder design. Something which doesn't warrant Block-lll to be defined as a new aircraft. Could possibly be something along the lines of what was done with the Super Hornets or Gripen-NG. It is plausible, the longer Block-llls takes, it can be more than plausible. Whether there is an engine change, remains to be seen. If there is an engine change, then it can explain structural changes. At best, a variant of WS-13 or RD-93MK-2.

2. Delays come due to lack of finances. Such delays were also rumored to have taken place with the Al-Khalid tank production. Even though HIT has the capacity to churn out greater number of tanks per month, it was rumored that lack of funding prevented it.

More likely scenario could be the latter rather than the former.

It surely COULD, but more likely it does not.

So at least I won't hold my breath for any revolutionary design changes.

Deino

 

[Gloire_bb]

should be able to give the SU-30MKI Flankers, upgraded MiG-29 Fulcrum's, Dassault Rafale's and whatever India is planning to buy maybe the Gripen E/F or the upgraded F-16's a run for its money.

You will have to pay for such an aircraft.
Beauty of current JF-17 is what it is a very reasonable vehicle: combination of its affordability and viability can be seen in a respectable production run.
Breaking this balance with technical/development risks or excessive costs per airframe(with diminishing returns for bucks spent) is very simple.

 

[Brumby]

most of all an AESA radar better or equivalent to the F-35's one,

Deino,
Normally you are fairly grounded in your views. Do you seriously believe that Pakistani in their first attempt is able to match the APG-81? Does anybody even have any idea what kind of technical specs are being worked on? How does anyone actually arrive at such a determination? Military grade TR's are highly restricted. I doubt Pakistan can produce high quality ones on their own. Even China has a problem with sourcing to my knowledge.

 

[jobjed]

Deino,
Normally you are fairly grounded in your views. Do you seriously believe that Pakistani in their first attempt is able to match the APG-81? Does anybody even have any idea what kind of technical specs are being worked on? How does anyone actually arrive at such a determination? Military grade TR's are highly restricted. I doubt Pakistan can produce high quality ones on their own. Even China has a problem with sourcing to my knowledge.

What suggests to you Deino believes Pakistan to have those ambitions for their radar?

 

[Blitzo]

Deino,
Normally you are fairly grounded in your views. Do you seriously believe that Pakistani in their first attempt is able to match the APG-81? Does anybody even have any idea what kind of technical specs are being worked on? How does anyone actually arrive at such a determination? Military grade TR's are highly restricted. I doubt Pakistan can produce high quality ones on their own. Even China has a problem with sourcing to my knowledge.

I'm pretty sure if you read it carefully you would understand that he considers that particular claim to be among the "fanboy claims".

To quote him directly but with some added annotations: "Honestly, NO, it does not ... it could - and IMO most likely - simply mean that there are delays. Therefore given the most reliable report I've read so far and not counting any fancy fan-boys stories at the PDF concerning a larger wing with MORE stores, a redesigned front-fuselage with stealthy shaping, larger intakes and a wider fuselage for a much more powerful engine and most of all an AESA radar better or equivalent to the F-35's one, I expect no dramatic changes. It will be an evolutional step from Block 2 to Block 3 similar as Block 2 evolved from Block 1. Consequently I fully agree with You..."

The parts in italics are everything he considers to be fanboy stories from PDF.

 

[Brumby]

I'm pretty sure if you read it carefully you would understand that he considers that particular claim to be among the "fanboy claims".

To quote him directly but with some added annotations: "Honestly, NO, it does not ... it could - and IMO most likely - simply mean that there are delays. Therefore given the most reliable report I've read so far and not counting any fancy fan-boys stories at the PDF concerning a larger wing with MORE stores, a redesigned front-fuselage with stealthy shaping, larger intakes and a wider fuselage for a much more powerful engine and most of all an AESA radar better or equivalent to the F-35's one, I expect no dramatic changes. It will be an evolutional step from Block 2 to Block 3 similar as Block 2 evolved from Block 1. Consequently I fully agree with You..."

The parts in italics are everything he considers to be fanboy stories from PDF.

Thanks. My bad.

 

[Klon]

Which fanboy said: "The operational range of the domestic KLJ-7A airborne active phased array fire control radar, which was first shown in the air show, is 170 kilometers, which is comparable to the level of F-35, and this is achieved at the level that the volume of this type of radar is smaller than that of F-35 equipped radar"?