JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[MastanKhan]

I would highly advise you to refer back to my original post before hand, as well as the entirety of the discussion before jumping to a hasty conclusion. I was referring to another poster's claim that the JF-17 could have reach 1000 units in production if it was build as a two seater.
Historically fighter productions during peacetime rarely ever reached more than 600-800 units depending on the needs of a particular nation, this number includes even planes of excellent design like the Mirage 2000, the Panavia Tornado and the F-14. It is only when a fighter received the combination of both a truly revolutionary design and the luck of an extensive networking and alliances. Very few fighters have ever reached such status, the chief of which is the F-16 and the Mig-29. For a nation like Pakistan, a number of 400-600 would be the most likely number, given it's GDP and area of operations. We can throw in perhaps another 100 units for foreign export, because while Pakistan have no existing disputes with most of the world, it does not have much networking as well.
And again, it must be understood that bringing in foreign comparisons when debating the facts of an issue does not, does not, in anyway automatically implies a subtly degradation of the original subject or person at hand, but it merely brings into perspective the reality of the issue.

Hi,

That was my claim---. You can address me---. A lack of two seater and the stepping back of the french EW system was a major setback for the Paf---. That number of 1000 was for its production life cycle---.

Every JF17 buyer that came to look at the JF17 in pakistan----asked the very first question about the two seater---. It took a decade for the Paf to recognize the fact that they blundered---.

An incomplete EW french package for the aircraft left the aircraft struggling for survival---.

The aircraft is about 8-10 years behind schedule---.

As for the super 7 or the mig 21---there is nothing common between them and the JF17---neither the design---nor the flight parameters---other than all these aircraft are meant for flying and killing---.

Paf does not disclose or brag about what they make or who they copied---or who they be selling to---.

The myanmar sale is a good example---.

A nation that has an access to the F16---Northrop F5---F18---Mirage 2K---Mirage F1 and then an extensive lookup of the Grippen for 2 years before embarking on the JF17 program---it would be purely out of prejudice that one would want to compare it to the mig21---.

Haters going to hate---and that is fine---.

Weapons of death and destruction are meant to show in the field what they can do---and not whose copy they are made up of---.

 

[ougoah]

I have no surprise of your incomprehension, given the fact that you apparently need every single thing to be spoon fed to you on a silver ladle. Refer back to the very original post that I made and you might get an idea.
But since you have proven to be just that incapable, I will give you a water down version here : The original poster contended that if Pakistan had developed the JF-17 as a two seater from the ground up it would have achieve more than 1000 units in both domestic and export sales. That claim is both highly unrealistic as it is unfeasible. Because :
1) The Super Seven/ Saber II/ Mig-21 that the JF-17 was based off was a single seater. It would have taken additional effort and time for Pakistan to reconstruct it into a two seater version.
2)That time and effort is something that Pakistan could have ill afford during the 1990s. The PAF needed an immediate fighter to content with India's Su-30s and Mig-29s. So the decision was wisely made to build the JF-17 first as a single seat and pushing any potential development of the airframe to a later date until the PAF's immediate needs are satisfied.


No, I am trying to say that the JF-17 is a 3rd rate junk fighter that is barely even capable of lifting off without falling apart who's sole selling point is that is not worth more than a bag of peanuts.
Or at least that is version you want to hear, because it is clear that what ever I say gets put through an alternative universe converter located in your head.

This is not what I am suggesting. I wanted to know what you mean by bringing up the whole super 7 Mig-21 lineage. Having looked at the last few pages, I see you are responding to a claim of selling 1000s if JF-17 was designed as a twin seater. Before reading that, it was difficult to understand where you were coming from.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

This is not what I am suggesting. I wanted to know what you mean by bringing up the whole super 7 Mig-21 lineage. Having looked at the last few pages, I see you are responding to a claim of selling 1000s if JF-17 was designed as a twin seater. Before reading that, it was difficult to understand where you were coming from.

So the lesson here, boys and girls, is to always, always get a good understanding of an issue before commenting on it.

 

[ougoah]

So the lesson here, boys and girls, is to always, always get a good understanding of an issue before commenting on it.

Haha good on you little man.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Haha good on you little man.

If that salves your pride, then good on your too.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

You know what, as far as Pakistanis go, we are happy with our JF-17s. Be that if they're based off MiG-21s, doesn't matter one bit. What matters is that we have worked hard with our Chinese friends in achieving something which very, very few countries can possibly achieve. And that is to design, develop, manufacture and own source codes to make changes to the aircraft. That sort of freedom is priceless and it's that sort of freedom which cannot be leveraged under sanctions. So if anyone says that Thunders are based on MiGs, I say thank you and ask whom does your country buy fighter jets from?

Thunder gave Pakistan the ability to shape it's own future, without being blackmailed by another country on what Pakistan can and cannot do. And hey, it's worked out so well for us so far. As matter of fact, one can say that Pakistan has its cake and ate it! Got sanctioned coz of nuke program, developed Thunder program with friend and ally, China. In the end, not only did Pakistan become the only Muslim country to have nukes, but also an independent fighter program (free from West sanctions) but also upgraded and expanded F-16 fleet. So yeah ... MiG-21s, MiG-17s or the Bi-Plane. It doesn't matter to us Pakistanis, we are proud of working with our Chinese friends and achieving the impossible.

And I will say you are welcome, good on Pakistan for the JF-17 and that we get our jets from the US thank you for asking.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Hi,

That was my claim---. You can address me---. A lack of two seater and the stepping back of the french EW system was a major setback for the Paf---. That number of 1000 was for its production life cycle---.

Every JF17 buyer that came to look at the JF17 in pakistan----asked the very first question about the two seater---. It took a decade for the Paf to recognize the fact that they blundered---.

An incomplete EW french package for the aircraft left the aircraft struggling for survival---.

The aircraft is about 8-10 years behind schedule---.

As for the super 7 or the mig 21---there is nothing common between them and the JF17---neither the design---nor the flight parameters---other than all these aircraft are meant for flying and killing---.

Paf does not disclose or brag about what they make or who they copied---or who they be selling to---.

The myanmar sale is a good example---.

A nation that has an access to the F16---Northrop F5---F18---Mirage 2K---Mirage F1 and then an extensive lookup of the Grippen for 2 years before embarking on the JF17 program---it would be purely out of prejudice that one would want to compare it to the mig21---.

Haters going to hate---and that is fine---.

Weapons of death and destruction are meant to show in the field what they can do---and not whose copy they are made up of---.

These 2 sentence right here shows how petty minded you are. Here is a hint, not everyone who disagrees on an issue with you has something against. Grow up.

 

[ougoah]

And I will say you are welcome, good on Pakistan for the JF-17 and that we get our jets from the US thank you for asking.

I'm curious Viktor. Which country is that?

 

[Deleted member 13312]

I'm curious Viktor. Which country is that?

None on the periphery of South East Asia is what I can assure you of. So you can forget about trying to turn this into a nationalism thing.

 

[ougoah]

None on the periphery of South East Asia is what I can assure you of.

If you wish to not say, you can simply say no.