All this is achieved while PLAAF did not order. The cost of design and build jets is skyrockating, JF17 will be hard to duplicate in the future.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
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All this is achieved while PLAAF did not order. The cost of design and build jets is skyrockating, JF17 will be hard to duplicate in the future.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Had the PLAAF ordered the jet, it would have turned out very differently because the PLAAF have very different priorities and operating environments in mind compared to the PAF.
The JF17 is a little hard to sell internationally because it has been tailor made for Pakistan.
That was probably the trade-off, where Pakistan dropped the original demand that the PLAAF buy a similar number of the jet, in exchange for them getting complete say on how the programme is run and what areas to priorities, while the Chinese still paid half the development costs.
Without that flexibility and practicality, the JF17 might well have ended up like a mini-F35, with conflicting demands from different services resulting in a compromised and unsatisfactory design for all parties involved.
The PAF love the JF17 because it was designed to perfectly meet their needs.
I believe that is a first for Pakistan, whereby instead of buying off-the-shelf fighter models and adapting them to Pakistan's needs, the JF17 was designed from the start for Pakistan's needs.
It is a privilege enjoyed only by the US, Russia, China, France and Sweden. Not even the UK or Germany have that luxury any more on account of needing to pool their resources to afford the Eurofighter, and thus having to accept some compromises to accommodate the other partners.
Going forwards, CAC might be a little too successful to be able to repeat that collaboration with the J10, J20, rumoured single engined 5th gen and various UAV programmes.
OTOH, SAC has fallen out of favour big time with the PLAAF, so it may be more practical for China to rent out the services of SAC to Pakistan.
However, there is understandable reluctance on the part of both the PAF and CAC to end such a successful and longstanding relationship, not to mention the fact that no-one likes to get stuck with the second string team after having played with the first team.
However, with CAC stretched and SAC desperately looking for a buyer for their J31, a repetition of the JF17 deal, but with a 5th gen airframe, may be too tempting an offer to pass up for Pakistan. And the Chinese government will also be keen to keep SAC in the fighter game to maintain competition and ensure CAC doesn't turn into a LockMart and become too big to fail and loose its way.
The JF17 is a little hard to sell internationally because it has been tailor made for Pakistan.
That was probably the trade-off, where Pakistan dropped the original demand that the PLAAF buy a similar number of the jet, in exchange for them getting complete say on how the programme is run and what areas to priorities, while the Chinese still paid half the development costs.
Without that flexibility and practicality, the JF17 might well have ended up like a mini-F35, with conflicting demands from different services resulting in a compromised and unsatisfactory design for all parties involved.
The PAF love the JF17 because it was designed to perfectly meet their needs.
I believe that is a first for Pakistan, whereby instead of buying off-the-shelf fighter models and adapting them to Pakistan's needs, the JF17 was designed from the start for Pakistan's needs.
It is a privilege enjoyed only by the US, Russia, China, France and Sweden. Not even the UK or Germany have that luxury any more on account of needing to pool their resources to afford the Eurofighter, and thus having to accept some compromises to accommodate the other partners.
Going forwards, CAC might be a little too successful to be able to repeat that collaboration with the J10, J20, rumoured single engined 5th gen and various UAV programmes.
OTOH, SAC has fallen out of favour big time with the PLAAF, so it may be more practical for China to rent out the services of SAC to Pakistan.
However, there is understandable reluctance on the part of both the PAF and CAC to end such a successful and longstanding relationship, not to mention the fact that no-one likes to get stuck with the second string team after having played with the first team.
However, with CAC stretched and SAC desperately looking for a buyer for their J31, a repetition of the JF17 deal, but with a 5th gen airframe, may be too tempting an offer to pass up for Pakistan. And the Chinese government will also be keen to keep SAC in the fighter game to maintain competition and ensure CAC doesn't turn into a LockMart and become too big to fail and loose its way.
I am most optimistic about the future of FC-31/J-31. Many countries can't buy F-35 then they do not have any other way to modernize air force after 2020. Consider Saudi, Egypt, many Asian countries, even maybe Vietnam. After 2020 the sanction is lifted then Iran will buy lots of stuff too.
The real competitor of FC-31 is Russia. F-35 buyers will never buy FC-31 so there is no competition with US.
On the other hand, F-35 sets the base price range for this sort of jets. All very promising to SAC if they can make FC-31 a capable jet. Also I don't think FC-31 should be customized for one country. It is best to be a general purpose platform with some degree of customization.
The real competitor of FC-31 is Russia. F-35 buyers will never buy FC-31 so there is no competition with US.
On the other hand, F-35 sets the base price range for this sort of jets. All very promising to SAC if they can make FC-31 a capable jet. Also I don't think FC-31 should be customized for one country. It is best to be a general purpose platform with some degree of customization.
I'm honestly at a loss for words here. Obviously we see it differently so lets agree to disagree.
In which specific ways is the JF-17 optimized for PAF? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know. If you're talking about how the monitors are set up or the layout, that's too trivial to matter. The plane is assessed based on its role. As a single engined, air superiority with secondary CAS, ground attack, and anti-ship, it's mostly a multirole fighter not too dissimilar to f-16 or gripen. No reason why this can't be exported and modified slightly for other countries. Reason it hasn't seen any exports is more an issue of politics, economics and price, rather than capability and jf-17 being too tailor made for PAF.
Wealthy countries generally tend to be either more politically aligned with the US and not likely to be able to buy a russian or chinese fighter. Other wealthy ones have better options like F-16s and Gripens in this weight class. The rest who are politically neutral and/or less friendly with the US, do not have the funds to purchase jf-17 in numbers. They opt for older planes or second hand pass-me-downs. The promising export potential countries fall in between and are building up funds and assessing this plane. I don't doubt it's a decent little fighter but we'll be waiting many more years before we see exports.
Wealthy countries generally tend to be either more politically aligned with the US and not likely to be able to buy a russian or chinese fighter. Other wealthy ones have better options like F-16s and Gripens in this weight class. The rest who are politically neutral and/or less friendly with the US, do not have the funds to purchase jf-17 in numbers. They opt for older planes or second hand pass-me-downs. The promising export potential countries fall in between and are building up funds and assessing this plane. I don't doubt it's a decent little fighter but we'll be waiting many more years before we see exports.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Skyrocketing? That is a bit of a exaggeration
End of the day the JF17 was fit for PAF anything on top is a bonus
JF17 is a victim of its own sucess, it turned out so well the upgrades can't keep pace with the original design unit
Now block iii is going for heavy upgrade
Export secured, block I finished Block II under construction and block iii on the design
Air Force, ground attack and naval aviation all branches want a piece of the pie
Now next big step is gaining more exports which by the way is in full swing we now have reference from Nigeria
JF17/K8/Mushshak package
Very attractive formula
antiterror13
Brigadier
I don't see Vietnam would buy any fighters from China .. let alone 5th generation fighters. And I don't think China would consider that either
Only a small handful of countries will be able to afford J-31 and they won't be making those prototypes into anything further until they receive partner nations like India with PAKFA. At the moment, they're still making revisions to the frame at least so it is pretty promising that the J-31 will become something in PLAN or PLAAF if not in the AF of another nation.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Foreign order or not J31 has a future
3rd prototype is meant to have naval modifications for PLAN aviation
True or not let's wait and see
But J15 has given huge experience so it can now be translated to J31
3rd prototype is meant to have naval modifications for PLAN aviation
True or not let's wait and see
But J15 has given huge experience so it can now be translated to J31