Blackstone
Brigadier
PRC and Pakistan have very close relations, and even partnerships, but I wouldn't call it "alliance," at least not in the sense of US-Japan alliance.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
OT
Indeed very different. US has many and large bases in Japan, China doesn't have bases in Pakistan.
MastanKhan
Junior Member
@Blackstone @delft
U S military is an occupying military in Japan---. Surprised that you have forgotten that Japan is a ' slave ' nation of the US---it was last conquered in 1945---.
It depends on the U S to give it some military freedom.
Pakistan and china do not share that history---the first naval base would be coming soon at gwadar---. Secondly---the pak military is not dependent on the chinese military to protect its assets.
U S military is an occupying military in Japan---. Surprised that you have forgotten that Japan is a ' slave ' nation of the US---it was last conquered in 1945---.
It depends on the U S to give it some military freedom.
Pakistan and china do not share that history---the first naval base would be coming soon at gwadar---. Secondly---the pak military is not dependent on the chinese military to protect its assets.
Blackstone
Brigadier
US military ceased to be an occupation force after the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty, so it's incorrect to call it an occupation force (today). Next, Japan isn't a slave country to the US but an enthusiastic ally. Why? Because it's in Japan's interests to be America's ally. On the other hand, I'd say Japan could be described as a vassal state of the US, but even that is changing under Shinzo Abe.
I thought Gwadar was lauded as a commercial port that can support some military needs, and not a full on military base. Did that change recently?
Finally, good to hear Pakistan can protect itself, because it's wise for nations to depend on itself and not on others.
Zahid
Junior Member
Diplomacy and friendships are the best first line of defence. Pakistan has a set of dependable friends and diplomacy to go along with its geo-political position.
That is why I think JF-17 fits Pakistan so well. Its not a heavy offense-oriented fighter and has already accrued several advantages for Pakistan.
Do Pakistan & China have an alliance like USA & Japan? Nope. Do they have a relation that goes beyond such an alliance? Yup: just look at JF-17.
That is why I think JF-17 fits Pakistan so well. Its not a heavy offense-oriented fighter and has already accrued several advantages for Pakistan.
Do Pakistan & China have an alliance like USA & Japan? Nope. Do they have a relation that goes beyond such an alliance? Yup: just look at JF-17.
In the fifties the then Indonesian president Sukarno invented the expression "guided democracy". And that is just what Japan is. I remember the vast resistance against a new military treaty with US around 1960 but the parliamentary elections are based on effective gerrymandering so that the government is nearly always LDP and when it is not the bureaucracy will not change policies anyway.
The interest of Japan should be accepting the independence of countries as established by the Westphalian Peace Treaties of 1648 and confirmed by the Charter of the United Nations and develop itself to cooperate with others as convenient and not be a US vassal. But the bureaucracy has been formed to maintain just that.
Blackstone
Brigadier
Japan's interests are up to the Japanese people and the leaders they choose. There's no doubt Japan has been "guided" by the US after WW2, but that might also be in Japan's interests as it gets protection from the US plus assistance to rebuild the war-gutted nation.
OT
It was also gutted by the Plaza agreement.
And what amount of "protection" needs a large country like Japan?
Blackstone
Brigadier
OT- we should take this discussion elsewhere, but think post war Germany on why.
That was geographically a very different situation. And the advantage Germany won from the war of 1870, the annexation of Alsace and Lorraine, would not be available in the current situation in the World. It brought no such advantage in any war in the 20th century and it was a major factor leading to WWI.
Remains the question what protection does Japan need that is not even needed by Iran which is threatened by two nuclear armed countries.