JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It's quite natural for a plane to loose some agility (especially a small plane) when you add in the extra weight of a second pilot, ejection seat, life support systems and instrumentation/controls. That is just the bare minimum if you want to put in a second pilot. If you want other goods to take advantage of the second person, like a more sophisticated ground attack capability, or more advanced EW etc, well, that's even more weight.
And of course, since you are not making the plane proportionally bigger to make room for the second pilot (again, because of weight), you are forced to take stuff out instead. The easiest thing to cut if you want to also add in more avionics would be fuel. That means less endurance, and shorter use of afterburners. So a further reduction in air combat potential.
But that is hardly a new or unique problem, which is why most air forces rely on their single seaters for air combat, and use their twin seaters for ground attack and training.
Thanks for logical and nicely summed up facts and conclusions. I have to agree. The only thing I could add that there was a long discussion inside PAF whether to lower the internal fuel to compensate and keep the agility but pretty obvious they went to indeed trainer, dedicated attacker etc. I am happy to see evolvements from J7G, JF17, J10B and J20... All lovely planes which can be part of Chinese products of pride and knowledge.
Indianfighter
Junior Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
I think every combat plane has a twin-seater version. So if this has been released now, how have the PAF pilots being trained so far ?
I think every combat plane has a twin-seater version. So if this has been released now, how have the PAF pilots being trained so far ?
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
Pakistani Fighter Pilots have a long history of training on a single seat fighter before the two-seater was ready for induction.
When A-5C Fantans were inducted into Pakistan Air Force, there wasn't any indication of a two-seater version in Pakistan Air Force's procurement plan. In fact, Pakistan Air Force did not ever procure a two seater version of A-5C and instead used the F-6 two-seater version for training pilots for the A-5Cs.
Similarly, when the F-6 Farmers were inducted into Pakistan Air Force, the initial years were 'two-seaterless' for Pakistani Fighter Pilots. During this time, Pakistani Fighter Pilots trained on and flew the F-6s in combat missions. It was only after the 1971 war, that the two-seater version of the F-6s began delivery to Pakistan Air Force.
Today, with the JF-17 Thunder, the same sort of pattern is appearing when it comes to two-seater version of the aircraft. It is no wonder that PAC-PAF weren't in any hurry to get the two-seater version before the single-seat went the through the paces of tests and evaluation. And as time passes by, there is a strong indication that JF-17Bs would be on the horizon, soon.
Pakistani Fighter Pilots have a long history of training on a single seat fighter before the two-seater was ready for induction.
When A-5C Fantans were inducted into Pakistan Air Force, there wasn't any indication of a two-seater version in Pakistan Air Force's procurement plan. In fact, Pakistan Air Force did not ever procure a two seater version of A-5C and instead used the F-6 two-seater version for training pilots for the A-5Cs.
Similarly, when the F-6 Farmers were inducted into Pakistan Air Force, the initial years were 'two-seaterless' for Pakistani Fighter Pilots. During this time, Pakistani Fighter Pilots trained on and flew the F-6s in combat missions. It was only after the 1971 war, that the two-seater version of the F-6s began delivery to Pakistan Air Force.
Today, with the JF-17 Thunder, the same sort of pattern is appearing when it comes to two-seater version of the aircraft. It is no wonder that PAC-PAF weren't in any hurry to get the two-seater version before the single-seat went the through the paces of tests and evaluation. And as time passes by, there is a strong indication that JF-17Bs would be on the horizon, soon.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
F22 and F35 are single seat only.
A twin seater is only essential when you are training pilots who are just learning to fly.
Established fighter types tend to have twin seat trainers to help speed up induction, and also because at that point, you will have pilots joining squadrons/regiments fresh from basic flight school, so they would benefit from a little more hands-on teaching.
However, when you are inducting a brand new airframe into an air force for the first time, the pilots first to train on the type will tend to be some of the most experienced and capable pilots that air force has. And pilots of such caliber can be trusted to safely fly a new plane with the right pre-flight ground based familiarization and training without needing a babysitter.
F22 and F35 are single seat only.
A twin seater is only essential when you are training pilots who are just learning to fly.
Established fighter types tend to have twin seat trainers to help speed up induction, and also because at that point, you will have pilots joining squadrons/regiments fresh from basic flight school, so they would benefit from a little more hands-on teaching.
However, when you are inducting a brand new airframe into an air force for the first time, the pilots first to train on the type will tend to be some of the most experienced and capable pilots that air force has. And pilots of such caliber can be trusted to safely fly a new plane with the right pre-flight ground based familiarization and training without needing a babysitter.
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
Twin seat are less and less relevant for modern days air superiority fighter jet as technology getting more advance.
Most of the pilot flew on JF-17 are establish pilot who has already clock certain timing on F-16. They just need to get familiar with static glass cockpit simulator which is as real as the actual fighter plane except the G and roll...
Twin seat are less and less relevant for modern days air superiority fighter jet as technology getting more advance.
Most of the pilot flew on JF-17 are establish pilot who has already clock certain timing on F-16. They just need to get familiar with static glass cockpit simulator which is as real as the actual fighter plane except the G and roll...
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
When PAF JF-17 are cleared to fire SD-10 missile? It seems to take ages to do that. In fact, I am surprised becos, J-10, J-8F and J-11B are all cleared to do that and the people shall be experience to do that for JF-17.
It seems AVIC people are taking their own sweet time for JF-17 to fire SD-10.
When PAF JF-17 are cleared to fire SD-10 missile? It seems to take ages to do that. In fact, I am surprised becos, J-10, J-8F and J-11B are all cleared to do that and the people shall be experience to do that for JF-17.
It seems AVIC people are taking their own sweet time for JF-17 to fire SD-10.
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
Not to mention, that in most cases the twin seater has lengthened fuselage than the single seater to compensate for eating up space. That increases/maintains the range to some extent but increases the weight significantly .
---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------
i believe there is atleast one pic of PT-04 pic loaded with a live SD-10A missile out there. Not sure if have seen one flying with sd-10.
Not to mention, that in most cases the twin seater has lengthened fuselage than the single seater to compensate for eating up space. That increases/maintains the range to some extent but increases the weight significantly .
---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------
i believe there is atleast one pic of PT-04 pic loaded with a live SD-10A missile out there. Not sure if have seen one flying with sd-10.