JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[pshamim]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

I don't think AIM-120s will be mated with JF-17 so the point is mute.
I agree with Crobato.

 

[Leeda]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Well, the AIM-120 AMRAAM is going through its third major variation, the AIM-120D. The maximum range of all three is given below:

AIM-120A/B...75km
AIM-120C....105km
AIM-120D....180km

The C version is the current full production version, and the D version will start deliveries this year and be in production thereafter.

Particularly with the D version (but you could also apply it to the C version historically in terms of range), which is a joint US Air Force/US Navy project, the "Medium" range part of the AMRAAM really no longer applies.

From its inception, the AMRAAM was designed with a datalink to guide the missile to a point where its active radar acquires and intercepts the target. That data link can be utilized by other aircraft, either other AIM-120 capable fighters, or, particularly the E-3 or E-2C AWACS aircraft.

1. Can anybody tell what version will Pakstan be getting??

2. And suppose if we are getting 120D's i/o 120C's, will it make any difference ??????? as I think we do not have radar's on our planes to go along with that kind of range.

Yet a possible solution could be to guide those missiles with Erieye we are getting in the near future....is it possible???..........oh sorry should've carefully read the last para...back to point 1 then.

1. Can anybody tell what version will Pakstan be getting??

2. Why is to so difficult to make an AIM compaitible with JF-17??? is it because of radars / avionics??? Also, can we not order missiles a bit customised so we could be able to use them with our JF's.

 

[Scratch]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

According to

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Pakistan will buy 300 SD-10 and 500 AIM-120C-5 (ordered in early '06 as part of a $650mn F-16 ammunition deal to equip the PAF's F-16C/D Block 52+ and F-16A/B MLU). Can someone confirm this?
The PAF also requested 3 Hawkeye AWACS radar suites for their P-3s.

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That would mean the AMRAAM would not be integrated into the JF-17. I wouldn't expect it anyway. I don't think the US wants another competitor on the fighter market that can utilize AMRAAMs. And I would think there are concerns of AMRAAM integration into an aircraft that China co-develops.

 

[Leeda]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Where can I find a comparison b/w SD-10 and AIM 120C-5 then ???? Can anybody guide me to a reliable source of getting these type of info.

And pls do not forget to add commments to my earlier post

akistan:

 

[Scratch]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

I don't know of specific comparisson sites. But you can check sources on those missiles like i.e.:

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maximum range of 70km and speed of Mach 4. The missile was claimed to be more manoeuvrable than the Russian R-77, and approach the U.S. AIM-120A in general performance.

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It sure makes a difference if you get the C or the D. The stated max range of 180km of the D does not mean you will fire it from that distance in combat.
When a missile goes after an evassive target, it has to fly hard turns itself and can not take the direct way, thus limiting the usefull range significantly.

To use a certain missile it must be integrated into the radar/avonics of that aircraft.
I would think the US will not give away that can be integrated on any foreign plane. Plus I think it's a rather complicated task. It would rather make more sense IMO to use avonics that can shoot the AIM. But then again I don't think it might happen.
Generally, if they get the AIM datalink to match with the Erieye it should be possible.

 

[pshamim]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

This is just a translation of the article above. I don't see how this shows China will be buying 1000 RD-93s.

According to the news reports as I posted and even in the Russian press China will buy only if RD-93 is further upgraded.

CHINESE FIGHTER CALCULATIONS TO PAKISTAN
Russia allowed the re-export of its jet

Russia formally authorized the export to China of Russian aircraft to Pakistan. Permission razmorazhivaet to supply 150 Chinese JF-17 fighters to Pakistan and a contract to supply engines from Russia in the amount of $ 238 million. with the prospect of up to $ 3.75 billion The administration of President assured that supply to Pakistan will not have a negative influence on military-technical cooperation with India, Russia, which was valued at $ 1.5 billion per annum.

The fact that Russia has agreed with China to jointly build JF-17 fighters in the assembly engines RD-93 of them factory. Klimova (serially produced by the plant. St) and the sale of these aircraft to a third country, mother to the source in the Russian government. According to him, we are talking about Pakistan and some countries in Southeast Asia and Africa, where "the Chinese traditionally very strong position." "Sdelku with Chinese personally supervised Vladimir Putin, a signatory to the permissive documents, reported Ъ during the administration of President .- Received agreement of all parties concerned, including the Defense Ministry, Rosproma and Rosoboroneksporta." But approval does not mean that Pakistan will be included in the list of countries which leads directly to Russia military cooperation. This is only one contract.

Under an agreement with China, Pakistan must get 150 fighter JF-17 Thunder (FC - 1) worth $ 2.3 billion In 2005 FGUP Rosoboronexport signed a contract with China for the supply of FC - 1 hundred RD-93 engines, spare parts for them and maintenance by $ 238 million. Beijing is ready to buy up to 1000 engines if they are to be upgraded with increased traction. In this case, the total value of the contract is $ 3.75 billion The original contract for the supply for China RD-93 specifically prohibit the re-export engines to third countries. But even at the Air Dzhuhae (China) in November 2006, development director of the Chinese Aerospace Corporation CATIC Lee Pey said that the RD-93 "will be re-exported."

The first shipment of 15 engines were sent from Russia at the end of 2006. In early March, two Chinese fighter JF-17 Thunder with Russian engines arrived in Pakistan. Further supply motors plant performs them. St. The plant was waiting permission to re-export that in mid-May to send the first batch party.

Previously, experts assumed that the decision to re-export could lead to the discontent of India, with which Russia has an intergovernmental agreement on nepostavke Islamabad military equipment. A military-technical cooperation with India, Russia has more than $ 1.5 billion per annum. Adviser to the press Indian embassy in Moscow Romesh Chandra said yesterday Ъ that at the embassy for permission to re-export the "unknown". However, the administration of President RF argue that the deal with China does not violate the interests of New Delhi : "India buys planes in Russia not just the next generation, a generation of" four plus. " The fighter aircraft JF-17 is a third generation actually dopotopnaya machines. " Furthermore, for example, another supplier of arms to India-France successfully sells military equipment to Pakistan. The structure of France for a decade Pakistan took third place with € 2,085 billion

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[tphuang]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

According to the news reports as I posted and even in the Russian press China will buy only if RD-93 is further upgraded.

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again, this is only something mentionned in Russian press, not something firmly agreed on between the two sides. I can bring many examples where the Russian press claim China will buy something, but ended never happening. The only thing it seems to confirm is that the original 100 engines are definitely going to get delivered.

 

[razorMC]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Though J-10 is a far superior aircraft, but it cannot replace every J6,7,and 8s in Chinese inventory.

PLAAF will definitely require another aircraft to eventually replace them and FC-1 is a good replacement for its lower cost, and superior technologies, and capabilities.

yes i agree to this.

i believe there is still room for more improvement in the fc-1. perhaps china can make it much better than f-16 block52 c/d
with china's technological strength, anything's possible.

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

J-6 is no longer is the PLAAF inventory so that doesnt concern the factor of replacement. And in response to replacing the J-7/8 my thoughts is this. The latest J-7/8 models will still be around for another decade while the bulk of the older J-7/8 models will be decomissioned from the PLAAF inventory rather than acquiring upgrades to the latest J-7/8 series. By retiring a bulk of the J-7/8 older versions it will give PLA more money to spend, obtaining the funding from maintenance and etc. This money will be used for training improvements and more simulators with more advancement in them. No need for a 1 to 1 replacement as this will take time and is unnecessary. J-11 will finish assembling all of its fighters, J-10 will act like the J-7 and become the bulk of the PLAAF inventory, FC-1 will act as the 2nd bulk aircraft of the PLAAF inventory. Twin engined J-10 will be in small production and J-XX will be undergoing test flight. These thoughts personally think could happen around 2013-15. FC-1 will go further upgrade, possibly a look into a twin engine based around the FC-1 will be achieved, but without Pakistan.

 

[Scratch]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

I don't believe further FC-1 improvements will bring a second engine, in that weight-class, a fighter should stick with one.
The FC-1 is designed to be light, a second engine will only add unneeded weight.
Though we know/assume the FC-1 currently to be underpowered, this can be solved by a stronger engine in the future. But I don't see a need for a second one.
It would also necessitate a major airframe and aerodynamics redesign and I don't exspect the FC-1 to be worth it.
And since it will be an important plane for PAF in the future, I exspect them to stay in the development all the way.