JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Semi-Lobster]

@ MastanKhan

Modern CAS has changed a lot. A-10 is outdated.
Instead, I think they could develop some new kind of small gunship for counter insurgency role.

Indeed, aircraft like the Su-25 and A-10 are holdovers from the Cold War, when battles were assumed to be fought in a WWIIesque clash of massed tank formations. Nowadays we either see light and fast ground forces that can easily scatter, take cover and fire shoulder launched SAMs, these are often the targets in question, not a T-72/M60. This requires an different aircraft than the big, slow bomb trucks, now we are seeing a lot of more nimble, light and low flying turbo-prop aircraft in the COIN role while dedicated attack aircraft now are few and far between. From recent conflicts now we see aircraft such as the F-15E deliver blows to armor or other heavier vehicles.

This is not to say that the A-10 is useless, you are right the USAF will probably operate them until 2028 at the very least it seems but the USAF also usually enjoys complete air superiority wherever it is and also, has no other aircraft to operate in the dedicated ground attack role.

All in all I'd say the JL-8 after a series of upgrades has the best potential for a COIN aircraft and larger aircraft like the JH-7A or Su-30MKK can provide ordinance on the heavier end of the scale. To be honest, as a maritime strike aircraft, perhaps a more attack oriented FC-1 would suit that role better. There is a greater emphasis on both payload capability and multi-role abilities generally, that either one or the other for carrier-bourne fighters.

Also errr this is kinda off-topic

 

[mkhan]

Off Topic..


Err any one who thinks A-10 and su-25 are not relevant in modern wars has not being paying attention to any of the major conflicts in the last few decades. A-10 were and still are being heavily used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Similarly, during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan the bulk of the sorties were carried out by Su-25s. Using an aircraft like f-35 to attack an enemy tank is sheer madness simply due to the cost of the assets involved. For close support, you need a relatively cheaper aircraft that can go in, take some fire, drop the payload and still come back out. A-10 and Su-25 still perform this job superbly. Both the A-10s and the russian su-25's are being upgraded, not because they are left-overs from older times , but because in their specialized roles they are still the best option (with helicopters of which china does not have many either).

Some aircraft has to attack those tanks, and bunkers and gun positions, and that aircraft better be a cheap one (relatively).

 

[siegecrossbow]

Off Topic..


Err any one who thinks A-10 and su-25 are not relevant in modern wars has not being paying attention to any of the major conflicts in the last few decades. A-10 were and still are being heavily used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Similarly, during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan the bulk of the sorties were carried out by Su-25s. Using an aircraft like f-35 to attack an enemy tank is sheer madness simply due to the cost of the assets involved. For close support, you need a relatively cheaper aircraft that can go in, take some fire, drop the payload and still come back out. A-10 and Su-25 still perform this job superbly. Both the A-10s and the russian su-25's are being upgraded, not because they are left-overs from older times , but because in their specialized roles they are still the best option (with helicopters of which china does not have many either).

Some aircraft has to attack those tanks, and bunkers and gun positions, and that aircraft better be a cheap one (relatively).

Fair enough. However China does have, albeit ancient, a cheap and effective ground attack vehicle called Q-5. As you said ground attack aircrafts are the best option against enemy armor but which of China's neighboring country could threaten China with armor? Russia is unlikely to end cooperation with China in the near future, Pakistan is China's best friend and other "Stan countries" are also in the SCO. North Korea won't bite the only hand that feeds it and Vietnam isn't known for its superb tank force (tank tonnage greatly limited given the South East Asian Geography). India's border with China is defined by the "roof of the world" and armor won't be useful there either.

I just don't think that it is worth China's time and efforts specifically developing a new attack aircraft. While it is true that both the A-10 and Su-25 important military assets keep in mind that they were developed in the PREVIOUS CENTURY. Attack helos, UCAVs, and multi-role fighters will fill the role of the attack planes in the future.

Back on topic:

Tamikhan- It is so awesome that you have friends in the Pakistan military. He didn't leak any classified info regarding the plane though, right?

 

[taimikhan]

Back on topic:

Tamikhan- It is so awesome that you have friends in the Pakistan military. He didn't leak any classified info regarding the plane though, right?

What kind of classified info are you looking at Sir ???

 

[siegecrossbow]

What kind of classified info are you looking at Sir ???

Holy cow that is awesome. Promise me that you won't compromise the national security of Pakistan and China though...

Just how ready, really, is the WS-13 engine? I've been hearing conflicting reports from Chinese, English, and Pakistani defence forums. That is not considered vital info, right?

 

[flyboy2008]

Let's not be so gullible....I don't take any claims of having "insider" information here seriously....and you shouldn't either.

People shouldn't be permitted to make grandiose claims without evidence, otherwise it is hearsay and nothing more.

 

[taimikhan]

Holy cow that is awesome. Promise me that you won't compromise the national security of Pakistan and China though...

Just how ready, really, is the WS-13 engine? I've been hearing conflicting reports from Chinese, English, and Pakistani defence forums. That is not considered vital info, right?

Well we are trying our best not to do that.

Well as per PAF guys, it would be taking another 2 years if all goes well, more if something goes wrong.

Flight trials have started and for now, no problems have arisen as of now. Ground trials all were successful and we may see a model of WS-13 engine at this year's Zuhai Air Show if by that time the flight trials are going smooth.

What I was told that WS-13 with something like 85-86kN thrust was made few years back and was ready for flight trials, but RD-93s were tweaked by Chinese friends to make more thrust compared to the time when received from the Russians, thus both engines had nearly the same thrust. As per the contract with the Russians, it was foreseen that engine would not be a problem for a few years, thus this time was utilized to make the WS-13 engine more powerful, thus we have seen the delay. Hopefully the engine would be having something like 95kN thrust or may be more.

 

[taimikhan]

Let's not be so gullible....I don't take any claims of having "insider" information here seriously....and you shouldn't either.

People shouldn't be permitted to make grandiose claims without evidence, otherwise it is hearsay and nothing more.

Well come to some Pakistani forums, where people had given out information about the plane, which later came out to be true today.

At Pakistani forums there are many people who are affiliated to people from the armed forces, thus they know info which is not public that much.

For example, i believe at defence dot pk, i was the one who said that JF-17s are beating PAF F-16s in dog fights, and not just once or twice but repeatedly, and now this information is public. Even in the recent Chinese program about JF-17 which was posted a few days back, the Chinese expert said that he has come to know about that also. And i said this thing around 6-8 months back.

Similarly many other information about the plane has been told on these forums, which are now coming out to be true.

Here, plzz read the english translation of the video of Chinese experts which came out a few weeks back after the JF-17 was shown at FIA.

Everything is not hearsay, sometimes evidence comes out little late.

Come to defence dot pk and you will find some very interesting inside tit bits about the JF-17.

Here see the translation of the Chinese program and what they had to say about the JF-17 & F-16 duels.

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JF-17 pilots were transferred from the F-16 program and when they were given option to revert back to F-16 program, they refused and opted to stay with JF-17s and in Pakistan F-16 is the love of everyone

So this is how much JF-17 is impressive, that ex-F-16 pilots refused to go back to their previous love.

Elite pilots of PAF with considerable experience go to F-16s and these elite pilots are now flying the JF-17s, that speaks something for the plane and its capabilities.

 

[flyboy2008]

Thanks Taimikhan for the link! Cool site.

 

[A.Man]

It Is On FC-1.

What Is Up, J-10B?

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