Japanese Mitsubishi X2 Stealth Aircraft News

b787 said:

You are a hypocrite, first you gang up against Samuraiblue, then you prentend to be the cool guy innocent, hypocrite, if you do not bring China do not compare it with Japan, Japan only should be then not compared to no one and you should not be saying Saying they are not ahead, since obviously in civil programs Japan is one of the main countries, anti terror said Malaysia, China and you hypocrite you did not say anything to him, hypocrite complain about him too also about equation who also mentioned China, you are a hypocrite who in your Chinese pride fight Samurai blue

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Firstly, do you remember there was a time not long ago in J-20 thread when many members argued with you? Does that constitute gang up against you? So in your dictionary, disagreement equal to gang up? I don't expect you answering these questions though, as you won't see the questions.

Secondly, do you know what you are talking about? My post was about SB's erroneous claim of Japan's involvement in LEAP engine, which was the very texts of mine that you joined in. This matter involve France, U.S.A and Japan. In none of my texts did I bring in China. The first mention of China was your post (China using Russian engines). If I act like you, then what is your accusing me for what you did? Lie?

Name calling and labeling others won't help your argument, because all our posts are here for anyone to read, people will make their judgement and I am confident what that will be.

What I do see in you is the lack of things like:
1. FOCUS, you need to focus on the subject, the original premeter of the subject, don't drift away, don't drag in others.

2. If you don't have FOCUS problem, you need emotional management. Stop name calling. "Attack" other people's point, not resort to personal attack.

3. READ, you need to read the texts of both the material that you quoted and by others before you say anything.

4. HONEST, you should not dodge questions. If you make a statement A, Others ask Why, You should answer it, You should not dodge it and respond in the next post with statement B.

I am very well aware that what I said above has been said by many other people one way or another in this forum, so I am not surprised that I have to say it myself. After so many people repeated telling you of the same thing without success, I don't expect you to learn anything from me this time. But I must say what I have to say.

b787 said:

You have no questioned anything, i am not dodging any questioned, jet engine design is not a secret science but more an expensive task which requires safety and a market it is very hard to enter

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Are you sure?
Read your post #43 which is not far above. In it you quoted my post which has words in bold texts and three question marks. And you are saying no questions?

taxiya said:

Firstly, do you remember there was a time not long ago in J-20 thread when many members argued with you? Does that constitute gang up against you? So in your dictionary, disagreement equal to gang up? I don't expect you answering these questions though, as you won't see the questions.

Secondly, do you know what you are talking about? My post was about SB's erroneous claim of Japan's involvement in LEAP engine, which was the very texts of mine that you joined in. This matter involve France, U.S.A and Japan. In none of my texts did I bring in China. The first mention of China was your post (China using Russian engines). If I act like you, then what is your accusing me for what you did? Lie?

Name calling and labeling others won't help your argument, because all our posts are here for anyone to read, people will make their judgement and I am confident what that will be.

What I do see in you is the lack of things like:
1. FOCUS, you need to focus on the subject, the original premeter of the subject, don't drift away, don't drag in others.

2. If you don't have FOCUS problem, you need emotional management. Stop name calling. "Attack" other people's point, not resort to personal attack.

3. READ, you need to read the texts of both the material that you quoted and by others before you say anything.

4. HONEST, you should not dodge questions. If you make a statement A, Others ask Why, You should answer it, You should not dodge it and respond in the next post with statement B.

I am very well aware that what I said above has been said by many other people one way or another in this forum, so I am not surprised that I have to say it myself. After so many people repeated telling you of the same thing without success, I don't expect you to learn anything from me this time. But I must say what I have to say.

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Do not pretend to be the good guy, this conversation with Samurai blue comes from the Chinese engine thread, which was a nationalistic competition where you were very involved.
So do not be a hypocrite, so any way, tell me in your falsehood did you remember you were in that thread, and you did gang up against Samurai blue, and any way most people here were saying I do not think China is behind, i do not think Japan is ahead, did you complain about them? did you abstain from getting involved? so for me you hypocrite, false, trying to portrait you as the good guy.

And any way, antiterror13 say all nations are doing the same, Malasya, China, Mexico, did you complain about him ? no hypocrite you are a hypocrite, he meant Japan is involved in the jet engine industry like Mexico is, Mexico does not have a company like IHI, IHI for your information is one of the most advanced companies in the world in engines they made from the XF-7 the engine for the Patrol aircraft P-x to the engine of the T-4 and Shinshin prototype, which has TVC nozzles and just flew a few months ago.

Comparing what IHI does is not equivalent to what is done in Mexico, In Mexico there is design but everything is made by GE, IHI is an independent Japanese company, which designs their own jet engines most of them are in the 5-7 tonnes, but they are involved in the design of many other parts among them materials and blades for the Low pressure parts of engines designed for the B-777, in that they are very advanced, positioning Japan in areas ahead of many countries.

In fact GE and IHI do cooperate, so they work as joint ventures which are lead by GE.

The experience they have is quiet amazing

taxiya said:

Are you sure?
Read your post #43 which is not far above. In it you quoted my post which has words in bold texts and three question marks. And you are saying no questions?

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Look if you understand, i quote your inaccuracy because IHI is involved in various GE programs, in fact see how many jet engines are they involved and what they do

V2500 turbofan engine
This medium-size engine was developed in an international collaborative project involving Japan, U.S.A., U.K.　and Germany, and has been installed on aircraft with 120 to 180 passenger seats such as the Airbus A319, A320, A321. For this best-selling engine with over 5,000 orders to date, IHI supplies fan modules and low-pressure shafts, and also focuses its efforts on maintenance work.
A321 （© Airbus）


GEnx turbofan engine
Newest engine with excellent environmental performances, such as fuel consumption rate, and low operational cost, installed into the next generation aircraft, Boeing 787 and 747-8. IHI is participating in the GEnx program of which leader is General Electric （GE） U.S.A as a risk and revenue sharing partner. IHI has the responsibility for design, manufacturing and assembly of about 15% of the engine, which mainly include the rotating members of the low pressure turbine, the aft part of the high pressure compressor airfoils, and fan mid-shaft.
Boeing 787 （© The Boeing Company）


GE90 turbofan engine
This is an engine with the world's largest engine thrust installed in Boeing 777s. The largest model of this series has a diameter of over 3 m. This engine was jointly developed by a manufacturer group consisting of General Electric （GE） U.S.A. and IHI.


CF34 turbofan engine
This is a small-size engine for the world's regional jet planes with seating capacity of about 70 to 100. This engine was jointly developed and being produced by a manufacturer group consisting of General Electric （GE） U.S.A. and IHI.

Trent turbofan engine
IHI supplies mainly the shaft and low/medium-pressure turbine parts for this large-scale engine primarily developed by British company, Rolls-Royce.
PW1100G－JM Turbo Fan Engine

PW1100G－JM Turbo Fan Engine

This engine is jointly developed and produced by US company, Pratt & Whitney, German company, MTU and the Japanese Aero Engines Corporation. PW1100G-JM is adopted on the medium-size Airbus A320 neo. This engine adopts a geared turbo fan system and IHI is in charge of the development of composite material fan parts.

F3 turbofan engine
This compact turbofan engine mounted on a T-4 training jet plane was developed using Japanese original technology. This engine is the second mass-produced engine following the J3.


F7-10 Turbofan Engine
F7-10 is a high-bypass ratio engine, powers the P-1 patrol aircraft.
It is a totally new engine that was developed by Japanese Defense Ministry.
And IHI has conducted mass production as the prime contractor.

F110 turbofan engine
This engine powers the F-2 support fighter, which was jointly developed by the United States and Japan. IHI has conducted mass production as the prime contractor through a license with General Electric (GE) of U.S.A.

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So now that you know do you think they are a small company? they are involved in more jet engines than most companies and they have experience from F-100 to Trent engines.

Japan easily could develop a clone copy of the F-100 and call it with a national designation, but they do not do it because GE is a very important partner and that means they will lose money since IHI is a partner is such programs for airline engines so is foolish for them to clone it and copy it.

They design also small engines because they lack some knowledge for some type of larger engines and their needs do not demand such engines because P-1 is a patrol aircraft with jet engines and Shinshin is a small tech demonstrator and it is very light and not armed

b787 said:

Do not pretend to be the good guy, this conversation with Samurai blue comes from the Chinese engine thread, which was a nationalistic competition where you were very involved.
So do not be a hypocrite, so any way, tell me in your falsehood did you remember you were in that thread, and you did gang up against Samurai blue, and any way most people here were saying I do not think China is behind, i do not think Japan is ahead, did you complain about them? did you abstain from getting involved? so for me you hypocrite, false, trying to portrait you as the good guy.

And any way, antiterror13 say all nations are doing the same, Malasya, China, Mexico, did you complain about him ? no hypocrite you are a hypocrite, he meant Japan is involved in the jet engine industry like Mexico is, Mexico does not have a company like IHI, IHI for your information is one of the most advanced companies in the world in engines they made from the XF-7 the engine for the Patrol aircraft P-x to the engine of the T-4 and Shinshin prototype, which has TVC nozzles and just flew a few months ago.

Comparing what IHI does is not equivalent to what is done in Mexico, In Mexico there is design but everything is made by GE, IHI is an independent Japanese company, which designs their own jet engines most of them are in the 5-7 tonnes, but they are involved in the design of many other parts among them materials and blades for the Low pressure parts of engines designed for the B-777, in that they are very advanced, positioning Japan in areas ahead of many countries.

In fact GE and IHI do cooperate, so they work as joint ventures which are lead by GE.

The experience they have is quiet amazing

Click to expand...

ONCE AGAIN you dodged my challenge to you that I highlighted in bold text. I have to assume that you CAN NOT focus, stick to the matter of the difference, but deliberately shift subject, therefor being DISHONEST, and NOT DESERVE a response any further.

4. HONEST, you should not dodge questions. If you make a statement A, Others ask Why, You should answer it, You should not dodge it and respond in the next post with statement B.

Click to expand...

Off and out.

taxiya said:

ONCE AGAIN you dodged my challenge to you that I highlighted in bold text. I have to assume that you CAN NOT focus, stick to the matter of the difference, but deliberately shift subject, therefor being DISHONEST, and NOT DESERVE a response any further.



Off and out.

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Dishonest? you simply have no argument, IHI can easily make a copy of F-110 and power a jet aircraft, but infringing the license means they will lose the programs they have with GE.
They already make a 12 tonnes jet engine.
XF-5 is a smaller engine based upon XF-7 which power a lighter jet aircraft, Shinshin is a very small aircraft, but the F-3 will be a larger aircraft and will mean a larger engine, this aircraft makes sense to deploy it in 2030 because IHI will also make the F-135 in Japan

Pratt & Whitney and IHI Sign Contract for Japan F135 Engines and Industrial Participation
Pratt & Whitney // November 06, 2013
IHI Corporation has signed a contract with Pratt & Whitney, a division of United Technologies Corporation (NYSE: UTX), to qualify components for the Japanese fleet of F135 engines that power the fifth generation F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft.



Pratt & Whitney and IHI are also working on a series of industrial participation stand-up contracts for additional F135 capability and in-country F135 final assembly.

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So you have no argument because IHI makes more engines than most jet engine makers with exception of GE, R&R and P&W and the Russian and Ukrainian jet makers

b787 said:

Look if you understand, i quote your inaccuracy because IHI is involved in various GE programs, in fact see how many jet engines are they involved and what they do


So now that you know do you think they are a small company? they are involved in more jet engines than most companies and they have experience from F-100 to Trent engines.

Japan easily could develop a clone copy of the F-100 and call it with a national designation, but they do not do it because GE is a very important partner and that means they will lose money since IHI is a partner is such programs for airline engines so is foolish for them to clone it and copy it.

They design also small engines because they lack some knowledge for some type of larger engines and their needs do not demand such engines because P-1 is a patrol aircraft with jet engines and Shinshin is a small tech demonstrator and it is very light and not armed

Click to expand...

Normally I don't want to get involved with dogmatic and bias person. But I can't help to correct this wrong assumption of "could have to" but doesn't do it type of assumption. Japan has not and repeat has not produce large high performance turbofan because she CAN'T period . Because it will be forbiddingly too expensive for small number of production. So she has no choice but stay as subcontractor for the big 3 or RR, Pratt and Whitney, GE and will stay there. Until she decide to abrogate the Japan US security agreement and decide for truly independent defense posture.

Another thing comparing China to Japan is like comparing apple and orange. Japan can buy any technology from other Western country China cannot So Difficulty scale is much higher for China than Japan

Case in point IHI make low pressure axle But she bought the machinery from Sandvik to do that and get Sandvik engineer to help them
Here is the link


China has to reinvent the machinery by herself So it is futile to compare China to Japan.

China has no choice but to develop the turbofan industry from the ground up and she has to bootstrap herself .And get the technology by hook and crook

Hendrik_2000 said:

Normally I don't want to get involved with dogmatic and bias person. But I can't help to correct this wrong assumption of "could have to" but doesn't do it type of assumption. Japan has not and repeat has not produce large high performance turbofan because she CAN'T period . Because it will be forbiddingly too expensive for small number of production. So she has no choice but stay as subcontractor for the big 3 or RR, Pratt and Whitney, GE and will stay there. Until she decide to abrogate the Japan US security agreement and decide for truly independent defense posture.

Another thing comparing China to Japan is like comparing apple and orange. Japan can buy any technology from other Western country China cannot So Difficulty scale is much higher for China than Japan

Case in point IHI make low pressure axle But she bought the machinery from Sandvik to do that and get Sandvik engineer to help them
Here is the link

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China has to reinvent the machinery by herself So it is futile to compare China to Japan.

China has no choice but to develop the turbofan industry from the ground up and she has to bootstrap herself .And get the technology by hook and crook

Click to expand...

Do not bring China, this is the Shinshin program thread, leave your explanations to yourself and your Chinese engine thread, do not gang up against me

b787 said:

Do not bring China, this is the Shinshin program thread, leave your explanations to yourself and your Chinese engine thread, do not gang up against me

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I don't gang up on you . But you must realize if you spout BS on forum, you will be challenge. Just because Japan make a great car and consumer product doesn't mean everything she touch turn into gold. Like this experiment

Trial Flight Of Japanese Supersonic Jet Crashes In Australian desert
The 11-metre (36-foot) model, equipped with 900 sensors to assess its performance, appeared to lose control immediately after its launch then it spiralled downwards, crashing in flames.
Sydney - Jul 14, 2002
The trial flight by Japanese scientists of a new generation of supersonic airliner intended to replace Concorde ended in a spectacular crash in the Australian outback.

Observers said the one-tenth scale model of the superjet with the speed, twice the range and triple the capacity of Concorde crashed within seconds of takeoff from the launch site at Woomera in South Australia.

The 11-metre (36-foot) model, equipped with 900 sensors to assess its performance, appeared to lose control immediately after its launch then it spiralled downwards, crashing in flames.

But a spokesman for the project overseers said the cause of the crash was not immediately known.

The National Experimental Supersonic Transport (NEXST1) project is the cutting edge of a push by Japan's National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) to create a new generation of supersonic commercial airliners.

Project spokesman Peter Nikoloff said Japanese scientists had been working on the jet for five years, although a full-sized version is not expected to be built for at least another decade.

The superjet, which will be 95 metres (314 feet) plane, was designed for long-haul flights, such as Sydney to London, where flying times could be reduced from 26 hours to 12.

The test launch, originally scheduled for last Thursday, was postponed because of adverse wind conditions and rescheduled to early Sunday when it was put off again for about two hours because of unsuitable weather.

The project aims to create a second generation of supersonic passenger aircraft to succeed the Concorde, which entered service in the mid 1970s, with a capacity of only about 100 passengers.

The planned plane would carry 300 passengers and match Concorde's speed of Mach Two (twice the speed of sound) but it would reduce its notorious sonic boom to a minor rumble. It would have twice the range of the Concorde and reduce fuel emissions by 75 percent.

The test model was intended to be launched to an altitude of 20 kilometres (12.5 miles) over South Australia on the back of a rocket booster.

Then it would have been put through a series of manoeuvres while measurements were taken as it returned to earth at nearly twice the speed of sound.

The project, which involves Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Nissan Motor Corp, has so far cost 140 million dollars (80 million US).

Japan researchers had also spent five years and an estimated 350 million dollars in redeveloping the Woomera site for the launch as part of the NEXST1 program.

NAL Japan had planned four more test flights at Woomera next year.

It was the second project to experience recent difficulties at Woomera.

Last October, an experimental rocket crashed after its guidance fins moved during flight and sent it off course following its Woomera launch.

Let's wrap this up shall we.

Polycarbosilane predursor fiber (precursor of CMC) was first developed by Professionr Yajima Seiji of Tohoku University in 1975.

Nihon Carbon was the first to mass produce and place it on the market under the product name Nicalon in 1983. Enhancements were made and new product named Hi-Nicalon was later placed on the market in 1995.

Ube Kosan developed a variant doping it with titanium or zirconium and is marketed as Tyranno Fiber.

GE Avionic integrated Nicalon fiber to manufacture their Turbine engines in the 1980's.

Lockheed incorporated Nicalon and Tyranno fiber to develop parts(location not specified) for the F-22 Raptor.

CFM International intergrated Hi-Nicalon fiber to manufacture various parts including turbine blades in developing the Leap engine.

IHI incorporated Tyranno fiber to develop various parts including turbine blades for the XF5-1 engine powering the X-2 and possibly the F7-10 engine since it adopted various technology developed in the XF5-1 engine.

The new trend material in developing jet engines is CMC with higher resistance to heat with lower unit weight.