Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

EmoBirb said:

Because that "Iran style" worked so well for Iran, right? No wait, they were bombed to kingdom come, hmm...

If you're an island nation and don't have a potent navy, with surface combatants, support vessels and submarines, you're not seriously trying. Carriers, especially these smaller ones, have much more utility than ballistic missiles. Be it disaster relief (very important in the region) as well as supporting amphibious operations in the region against non-peer factions, conducting reconnaissance as well as being a platform to launch ASW and AEW&C style aircraft. All of these points are valid reasons to invest into medium sized flat decks. I think you can't quite grasp the utility of a ship that can launch and host several large helicopters. The ASEVs are ABM ships, so while very specialized in essence, their role is very important given the potential means of a Chinese attack. And if one is like Japan and has genuinely decent shipbuilding, then it's a no brainer to invest into powerful and versatile naval vessels.

If the PLARF would attack mainland Japan or attack the JMSDF in a large scale, they'd catch nukes anyway so it's a moot point (as these mass attack fantasies are always) because these would either come from the US or Japan directly, which as a nuclear latent state, could more or less develop the bomb in weeks, if not days.

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Really? Japan developing Nukes in wartime and launching towards China?

And why would China allow that to happen? If China gets any indication that Japan intends to do that, then the most logical next step will be to Nuke Japan first before it can threaten China.

If you are not already a nuclear weapon state, then don't threaten to develop a nuke to Nuclear superpower, cause they can also nuke you first.

tamsen_ikard said:

Really? Japan developing Nukes in wartime and launching towards China?

And why would China allow that to happen? If China gets any indication that Japan intends to do that, then the most logical next step will be to Nuke Japan first before it can threaten China.

If you are not already a nuclear weapon state, then don't threaten to develop a nuke to Nuclear superpower, cause they can also nuke you first.

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Japan is a threshold nuclear nation, long since exposed. Simple nuclear devices from their position will not take long.

Japan is under US security guarantees, and realistically only US are significant obstacle to Japanese(and SK) nukes.

Gloire_bb said:

Japan is a threshold nuclear nation, long since exposed. Simple nuclear devices from their position will not take long.

Japan is under US security guarantees, and realistically only US are significant obstacle to Japanese(and SK) nukes.

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I have discussed this before in other threads. I don't think China will allow Japan to have nukes due to historical reasons. China will surely go ballistic to prevent it. In fact, I am certain it will trigger a war between Japan and China. I would argue due to historical grievence, China will have no hesitation even nuking Japan if it that is needed to prevent Japan from having Nukes.

Having the technical knowhow of how to develop a nuke is quite different from having a full on MAD level nuke capability. For that Japan needs credible Hypersonic Missiles with Nuke Capability, they need credible bomb designs. This is not a 1 week effort.

There is plenty of Time for a Nuclear weapon state like China to utterly level a country like Japan within that time frame. In fact, even if they can develop a crude dirty Bomb or something. I would argue China would rather sacrifice one of its cities rather than allow Japan to have full on Nuclear capability with 100s of nukes and Ballistic missiles to launch them.

China hasn't shown any kind of threatening language against SK or Japan when it comes to acquiring nukes because it knows US has complete control over these two countries.

However, if that control slips and there is a serious attempt by either of these two countries to acquire nukes. Chinese action will be swift and certain. It will start with diplomatic threats and economic sanctions. But if that does not change trajectory, Chinese Missiles will be flying towards Japan and SK.

@tamsen_ikard you simply fail to understand three things:

- China has no say in the matter

- Japan could produce nuclear weapons at a moments notice, there would not be much time to react until mushroom clouds level Chinese urban centers (ignoring the fact in this scenario the US would have already wiped them out long before that)

- the only reason Japan doesn't have a nuclear stockpile right now is because the Americans tell them that it's not necessary because they're under their protection. But Japan, like many other countries (albeit probably the most prominent example) maintains the capability to assemble nuclear weapons essentially at a moments notice. And this is how you don't get East Asian Iran but East Asian Israel.

Back on topic though, I'm quite surprised that they decided to rename the refitted Izumos as CVMs. It's a bold but also deliberate move. Same with using CG over DDG for their ASEVs.

The ASEVs will definitely be looked at with great interest, from the US, China and both Koreas as well I presume.

Japan is widely regarded as a quasi-nuclear power due to its technological capabilities and nuclear industry. However, there is a world of difference between a quasi-nuclear power and an actual nuclear power. Japan acquiring independent and controllable nuclear weapons would pose a significant threat to China, North Korea, and South Korea, and would likely trigger a chain reaction of nuclear proliferation. China's current low-key stance toward Japan's potential nuclear armament stems from its awareness that the United States currently provides Japan with a nuclear umbrella. China would not deliberately complicate bilateral relations by creating obstacles.
Historically, China has launched punitive strikes against Russia, Vietnam, and India, and even intervened in Korea to lead the Korean War against the United States for national security. Should the U.S. ever fail to contain Japan's nuclear ambitions, one should not assume China will cling to its early 21st-century policy of “keeping a low profile” and allow Japan to completely disrupt the regional nuclear balance. Japan is a declining island nation heavily reliant on global markets. China and the international anti-nuclear proliferation alliance possess numerous means to severely impact Japan. Should Japan persist in pursuing nuclear weapons, it risks economic and political suicide.

Okay, so as it turns out, the new CVM designation has nothing to do with "actual" carriers. It is intended for the Izumo class, because it is clearly nonsensical to call it a "helicopter-carrying destroyer" when it carries fighters.

The M stands for multipurpose, because the Izumos have some amphibious capability. The CVM designation is inspired by descriptions of Italy's Cavour-class carrier, which has similar capability to the Izumos. The Hyuga class, which still can only carry helicopters, will still be designated DDH.

The CG designation was adopted because the ASEV will be even larger than the Zumwalts, so it makes no sense to try and pass it off as a destroyer.

CG is less controversial than "CVM" because there were never any restrictions on Japan possessing cruisers. The LDP claims they are still respecting Article 9 because it only disallowed "attack aircraft carriers."

"Attack aircraft carrier" is an old US Navy designation used to differentiate between normal carriers and specialized ASW aircraft carriers that were in commission in the 1950s and 1960s. It was abolished in 1975, because it was deemed too aggressive. The article notes, however, that when it was abolished, the old "attack aircraft carriers" became "multipurpose aircraft carriers" because they were no longer for a single task (attacking). Therefore theoretically, this creates a loophole that could be used to justify a proper aircraft carrier in the future.

EmoBirb said:

@tamsen_ikard you simply fail to understand three things:

- China has no say in the matter

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This is true. It may take war to kneel Japan. Or... it may simmer down if China allows it to deal some heavy blows to the US at the end of WWIII when America is nearly defeated. After all, America, not China is the nation who took away Japan's samurai mojo and turned it into a lapdog. Japanese are only pretending they don't remember because remembering would be too painful when they can do nothing about it. Help them settle this score and you make them whole and at peace with themselves.

EmoBirb said:

- Japan could produce nuclear weapons at a moments notice, there would not be much time to react until mushroom clouds level Chinese urban centers

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Sorry, what? Japan can build and launch nukes faster than China can launch existing nukes? LOL

EmoBirb said:

(ignoring the fact in this scenario the US would have already wiped them out long before that)

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They were always free to try but the recent military parade of our new missiles is added reassurance that they won't. They didn't dare since long before that.

EmoBirb said:

- the only reason Japan doesn't have a nuclear stockpile right now is because the Americans tell them that it's not necessary because they're under their protection. But Japan, like many other countries (albeit probably the most prominent example) maintains the capability to assemble nuclear weapons essentially at a moments notice. And this is how you don't get East Asian Iran but East Asian Israel.

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"A moment..." those words don't mean what you think they mean. China can launch nukes in a moment. Japan will take much much longer to build them. Israel is only the terror it is in the middle-east due to extremely weak and Western-dependent neighbors. Israel is nothing if it were to sit next to a hostile nuclear superpower.

EmoBirb said:

@tamsen_ikard you simply fail to understand three things:

- China has no say in the matter

- Japan could produce nuclear weapons at a moments notice, there would not be much time to react until mushroom clouds level Chinese urban centers (ignoring the fact in this scenario the US would have already wiped them out long before that)

- the only reason Japan doesn't have a nuclear stockpile right now is because the Americans tell them that it's not necessary because they're under their protection. But Japan, like many other countries (albeit probably the most prominent example) maintains the capability to assemble nuclear weapons essentially at a moments notice. And this is how you don't get East Asian Iran but East Asian Israel.

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He isn't the one failing to understand here.

Japan is months away from a nuclear weapon. It is 15 minutes away from annihilation.

ZeEa5KPul said:

He isn't the one failing to understand here.

Japan is months away from a nuclear weapon. It is 15 minutes away from annihilation.

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We aren't in a world where nukes flying left and right. There were strikes to prevent proliferation, all of them coming from side safeguarding Japan. If someone wanted to strike Japanese proliferation facilities - they're all well known(especially after Fukushima, when treacherous isotopes, betraying japanese tricks, were collected ... almost mundanely). Full decade passed since then.

And especially China isn't a nation nuking first anyone anytime soon. Simple vibe/capability check easily singles out China to be not just one of, but the single least interested nation to let djinn out of the bottle.

PRC is now urgently trying to change that at least somewhat, but fact remains, that peaceful contender to tech/economical preeminence, achieving tme through most concentrated, exposed and vulnerable population, isn't exactly likely to screw that all going H. Truman.

And instead of what you're describing, China is right now in fact rather urgently tries to shield itself from such "emergency" nukes from potential newborn nuclear powers. HQ-19, 29 aren't really stopping american strike, not even north korean. Something smaller scale, South Korean or Japanese - that's a different story.