Schumacher
Senior Member
You may find it hard to accept the tightness of the leash US has on Japan. Japan don't even have the political will to make major buy of non-US commercial airliners, good luck to you if you think they'll buy EF-2000.
You may find it hard to accept the tightness of the leash US has on Japan. Japan don't even have the political will to make major buy of non-US commercial airliners, good luck to you if you think they'll buy EF-2000.
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
I don't accept the "tightness of the leash US has on Japan", because there is no leash. Japan has a very close relationship with the US, but that doesn't mean it cannot make up its own mind. Maybe you would like to explain the EH101 deal if the US can insist Japan buys everything from it.
If the Raptor is not available, I believe there is a very good chance Typhoon will be selected over the rest of the competition, unless some problems emerge with the programme amongst the European partners that makes it less desirable. Even Janes' has put the Typhoon at the front, probably believing the Raptor will not be made available in time or the details of the offer will not be good enough for Japan.
Schumacher
Senior Member
If you actually think the EH101 deal is significant enough to be used at all to gauge the direction Japan will take in the F-15/F-4 replacement decision, I rest my case.
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
Don't twist what I said to avoid the question. I asked why Japan would have bought European helicopters if the US is able to dictate who it buys its weapons from. Clearly that is not the case, otherwise Japan would have gone for the Sikorsky S-92.
Equally, do you really think Janes' would have put the Typhoon ahead of the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet if it was so clear that American will always trump non-American in military sales? Your over-simplistic view towards this matter is a joke!
Last edited by a moderator:
Schumacher
Senior Member
Sigh .... you still don't get it. For a military the size of Japan's, at least you can find a few helicopters, a dozen, is it ? that are non-US. Good for you, you got me this time.
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
How many non-US companies have tried to bid for Japanese military contacts in the past? Not many. The Agusta-Westland deal was ground-breaking in terms of making European firms believe they could bid in Japan and win. Now that they have something that fits Japan's requirements very well and can be considered superior to the competition (at least if the Raptor is not made available), they are taking the tender seriously.
Once again you are ignoring important questions:
1. If the US dictates who gets to sell what to Japan, why didn't it "give" the helicopter deal to Sikorsky?
2. Why did Jane's put a European fighter ahead of American competition? You're telling me you have a better view of Japanese military policy than a globally-respected information organisation?
Schumacher
Senior Member
I wonder why ?
Last edited by a moderator:
Guys, please refrain from the little insults. This is the Japan military news thread.
bd popeye super moderator
20 minutes later..last chance guys knock it off
Thread closed for 24 hours to allow for cooling off.
bd popeye super moderator
------------------------------------------------------
1 day later...Thread open. Please heed the admonishment!
bd popeye super moderator
20 minutes later..last chance guys knock it off
Thread closed for 24 hours to allow for cooling off.
bd popeye super moderator
------------------------------------------------------
1 day later...Thread open. Please heed the admonishment!
Last edited:
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
There is really nothing to get agitated about...:coffee: Tokyo is simply trying to improve her relationship with western europe in particular the UK and Germany since they recognize that their economic influence has waned dramatically especially in Germany (sino-german trade is currently three times the volume of Japan's, figures for UK are less dramatic but also unfavourable for Tokyo). Of course there is no chance that the JSDF would buy the `Typhoon´unless hell freezes over , but Japan's intention is aimed at lesser objectives: making some waves for creating a ´feel good factor ´in Tokyo's relations with Berlin and London inclining the UK and Germany to maintain their position against the lifting of the PRC arms embargo.
P.S:
dear Fu did you know that JAL (privatized in '87, flying the biggest Boeing fleet outside US for decades) is holding a very peculiar record in civil aviation: JAL is the only mega carrier on the globe never ever having ordered even one Airbus!! :roll:
(currently they got some 20 in their 280 unit fleet but they are from a take over).
ANA also fits into the pattern: After making some token steps back in the 90's for fleet diversification (ordering 28 Airbus) they made the decision last year to replace all of these aircraft by Boeing Dreamliners and consequently next year ANA will have left only 2 Airbus in their 170+ unit fleet. This behaviour is evidently in sharp contrast to carriers of long time US client states like Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Taiwan since e.g China Airlines began diversifying her fleet more than 10 years ago!
So if there were incredibly news from Japan that JAL and ANA would buy at least some dozen of Airbus aircraft there would be a chance to convince me that JSDF would give the Typhoon actually at least a chance but in absence of a miracle I am afraid of being dissapointed...
, but Japan's intention is aimed at lesser objectives: making some waves for creating a ´feel good factor ´in Tokyo's relations with Berlin and London inclining the UK and Germany to maintain their position against the lifting of the PRC arms embargo.P.S:
dear Fu did you know that JAL (privatized in '87, flying the biggest Boeing fleet outside US for decades) is holding a very peculiar record in civil aviation: JAL is the only mega carrier on the globe never ever having ordered even one Airbus!! :roll:
(currently they got some 20 in their 280 unit fleet but they are from a take over).
ANA also fits into the pattern: After making some token steps back in the 90's for fleet diversification (ordering 28 Airbus) they made the decision last year to replace all of these aircraft by Boeing Dreamliners and consequently next year ANA will have left only 2 Airbus in their 170+ unit fleet. This behaviour is evidently in sharp contrast to carriers of long time US client states like Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Taiwan since e.g China Airlines began diversifying her fleet more than 10 years ago!
So if there were incredibly news from Japan that JAL and ANA would buy at least some dozen of Airbus aircraft there would be a chance to convince me that JSDF would give the Typhoon actually at least a chance but in absence of a miracle I am afraid of being dissapointed...
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
So you're saying Janes' doesn't know anything about this area when it suggested earlier on in the year that Typhoon was most likely to win the contract? Why would one of the most respected global military information networks say something like that unless there was a real chance of buying non-American?
In that case, why didn't Washington "award" the helo contract to Sikorsky if it has that much influence? You allege the US calls the shots and it couldn't stop a modest contract like that being awarded to a European firm? Or indeed stop the SDF from withdrawing from Iraq? Rubbish!
Last edited by a moderator: