Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Pmichael

Junior Member
Japan is world leader in material science and isn't sloppy in other science and engineering fields. It was always more about the political will than anything else.

The F135 is also not really relevant for air defense/superiority fighters with its high bypass ratio.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Which makes it even more impressive! It is 4.8m in length and 1m in diameter (Dry thrust 11+ tons). In contrast, the F119 is 5.16m in length and 1.2m in diameter (Actual thrust values are classified but the Dry thrust is believed to be roughly 11.6t). F135 is 5.56m in length and 1.17m in diameter (Dry thrust 12.7t). So the XF9-1 is smaller in dimensions and for supercruise that dry thrust is key. Like I said, this is one hell of leap by Japan.

I guess Japan not getting the F-22 turned out to be a good thing.
Could see noticeable tradeoffs in maintenance needs though.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
The 5:1 ratio between the lenght and diameter is roughly similar to the ratios found on the EJ-200 (74 cm and 4 meters) and M-88 (70 cm and 3.5 m). The question about the F-3's engine is, what is the T/W ratio.

Though I think that the turbofans with greater lenght to diameter ratios might be less fuel efficient, IIRC... Would also require much higher heat tolerance in the turbine blades, which raises weight and resilience issues.

EDIT: You could extend range by turning it into a combined cycle, but that could add on 5 years or so to development.
 
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
Could see noticeable tradeoffs in maintenance needs though.
And what would that be?
Please elaborate.

The 5:1 ratio between the lenght and diameter is roughly similar to the ratios found on the EJ-200 (74 cm and 4 meters) and M-88 (70 cm and 3.5 m). The question about the F-3's engine is, what is the T/W ratio.

Though I think that the turbofans with greater lenght to diameter ratios might be less fuel efficient, IIRC... Would also require much higher heat tolerance in the turbine blades, which raises weight and resilience issues.

EDIT: You could extend range by turning it into a combined cycle, but that could add on 5 years or so to development.

XF9 is the second military engine utilizing CMC with the first being XF5 that powered ATD-X.
As for weight, since Silicon Carbite (SiC) being lighter than Titanium alloy doped with molybdenum and other rare earth material, theoretically XF9 would be much lighter in weight than conventional military turbo-fan engine utilizing conventional Titanium alloy.
It also handles much higher engine core temperature with XF5 reaching 1,650℃ and XF9 reaching up to 1,800℃ where conventional engines peaks at around 1,450℃.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
And what would that be?
Please elaborate.



XF9 is the second military engine utilizing CMC with the first being XF5 that powered ATD-X.
As for weight, since Silicon Carbite (SiC) being lighter than Titanium alloy doped with molybdenum and other rare earth material, theoretically XF9 would be much lighter in weight than conventional military turbo-fan engine utilizing conventional Titanium alloy.
It also handles much higher engine core temperature with XF5 reaching 1,650℃ and XF9 reaching up to 1,800℃ where conventional engines peaks at around 1,450℃.
Using new materials; speaking from general engineering principles, if you use an entirely new material for applications, there is going to be a lot of need for intense maintenance as you build up a working knowledge.

The EJ200 hits about 1580 Celsius, and I can only imagine what the F119 actually is.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Using new materials; speaking from general engineering principles, if you use an entirely new material for applications, there is going to be a lot of need for intense maintenance as you build up a working knowledge.
Why?
You'll really need to elaborate this one since new application does not always means it requires more maintenance. Without some actual reason you are only generalizing a very specific situation.
CMC has been heavily tested in both commercial and military application for jet engines through GE and development of XF5.
The EJ200 hits about 1580 Celsius, and I can only imagine what the F119 actually is.
Really, didn't know that but it still is lower than the FX5 1,650℃ mark.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Why?
You'll really need to elaborate this one since new application does not always means it requires more maintenance. Without some actual reason you are only generalizing a very specific situation.
CMC has been heavily tested in both commercial and military application for jet engines through GE and development of XF5.

Simple, you have no data on Mean Time to Failure. What is the time between cracks/fatique to appear on one of the blades. Much more frequent of close examination like x-ray will be needed
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Simple, you have no data on Mean Time to Failure. What is the time between cracks/fatique to appear on one of the blades. Much more frequent of close examination like x-ray will be needed
That is something GE, Boeing and other research labs would be looking at first.
Do you have lab results that we can compare with conventional material?

Boeing is not going to place something on their plane without literally scrutinizing with a microscope first.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
Using new materials; speaking from general engineering principles, if you use an entirely new material for applications, there is going to be a lot of need for intense maintenance as you build up a working knowledge.

That's nonsense. You are not using new materials and ship them with a product and just wait how it turns out. Especially not in the aerospace field where everything needs to be certificated and proven.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
That is something GE, Boeing and other research labs would be looking at first.
Do you have lab results that we can compare with conventional material?

Boeing is not going to place something on their plane without literally scrutinizing with a microscope first.

Like Boeing Dreamliner with Trent engines? ;)
 
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