J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31 thread

[ACuriousPLAFan]

The best J-35 versus F-35 comparison infographic, hands down. No words needed.

 

[iewgnem]

Honestly, I think this is very much unlikely … and would totally turn my understanding upside-down!

I‘m well aware that we don’t know everything but we are not that much behind and at least as it seems the first J-35A indeed flew first only in September 2023, even for an almost mature design based on FC-31 & J-35 testing, the time from maiden flight to service entry cannot be just 1 year plus a few months.

Either we miss something completely, or there are at least 5 or more prototypes flying since much longer or it is nonsense.

No country - even the US with all their fast experience especially in latest generation and stealth aircraft - can start serial production for operational units after only a few months! That simply does not work.

The new production line at SAC capped off in September 2022, you can see it on GE historical imagery, so 2 years between cap off and first batch of production unit to roll of that line isn't that unusual.

Also US has never been a benchmark for speed when it comes to anything newer than 1980s.

 

[iewgnem]

View attachment 138368

Considering USAF wants to reduce NGAD cost to below F-35, floated a "light fighter" concept, and wants to heavily integrate with CCA, there's a chance their new NGAD will be similar to NG's Model 437, which would be hilarious, but also means they can claim it already flew

 

[tphuang]

I'm sure they'll try to incorporate the lastest improvement as much as they could on the J20, but there are many things you can't simply rebuild from scratch at this stage of it's production. J35 was designed to have less parts in total (I'm sure the old thread has articles on this topic, such as producing the main frame and the wings as a single part and etc) thus easier and faster to produce than J20 which wasn't designed this way. You can improve the electronics and softwares for the new batches of J20 rather easily, but drastically changing how the aircraft is produced requires so much retooling on the manufactoring side and is simply not an option if they want to keep the current production rate.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but to ramp up the speed again takes time. Maybe they would wait till J35A's prodcution rate to mature before making this kind of change, or maybe they won't, as the current production rate is already quite impressive for a heavy weight.

They are already up to 100 a year and they are expanding factory space by 3x. What kind of retooling issues are you talking about?

The production cost for j-20 has to be very competitive right now.

And again, being easier to produce is only one of the possible reasons they chose the J35A. Back when CJDBY was still alive there was a great post on the importance of "frontline fighter jets". Just a quick summary of what I could remember: in a full scale war, you would want a kind of jet that's easier to maintain to place at bases closer to the frontline, both for the faster reaction time and for handling the (usually) less optimal conditions of these bases. I do believe J20 would still be the ACE for PLAAF, as it would have bigger range, faster speed and better supersonic maneuverability, but there's a reason why F16, MiG29 and J10 exist along side F15, Su27 and J11. J35A should be the 5th gen version of these. Maybe it has some other advantages compared to J20, such as better stealth (as the just came out interview says), but even if it doesn't, a jet like this still has its value.

Things have changed a lot since then. J-20 production is way up now. Its availability is like 90%. How much better can that get?
The low option in the future warfare is UCAV.
Where does it say J-35 have better stealth than J-20? J-20 is bigger and more powerful, so it can carry more powerful EW suite to reduce adversary visibility into it.

You get competition between CAC and SAC for fighter buys as well.
That drives down costs and increases improvements

sure, I think that's another reason for it.

 

[kentchang]

The best J-35 versus F-35 comparison infographic, hands down. No words needed.

View attachment 138405

I am a big fan of Bill Sweetman's writings and analysis. I still remember when FC-31 first came out, he wrote that the FC-31 was what the F-35 should have been. The right-hand side pictures even better.

 

[Gloire_bb]

I am a big fan of Bill Sweetman's writings and analysis. I still remember when FC-31 first came out, he wrote that the FC-31 was what the F-35 should have been. The right-hand side pictures even better.

Fc-31(and j-35a) is many things, but it directly contradicts what f-35 was always meant to be.
So while j-35a may have sense in Chinese context (let's understand first what de even see, is it prototype or no ffs), it most certainly doesn't make no sense whatsoever in American one.

 

[Arienai]

They are already up to 100 a year and they are expanding factory space by 3x. What kind of retooling issues are you talking about?

The production cost for j-20 has to be very competitive right now.

Things have changed a lot since then. J-20 production is way up now. Its availability is like 90%. How much better can that get?
The low option in the future warfare is UCAV.
Where does it say J-35 have better stealth than J-20? J-20 is bigger and more powerful, so it can carry more powerful EW suite to reduce adversary visibility into it.

I said retooling because you said they'll incorporate the advancement made at developing J35A on J20 as well, which if you want to change how J20 is produce fundamentally, then obviously retooling is needed. Not saying it will happen because I said its current rate is already impressive.

And as for your "J20 is all you need" mentality, well I've seen too many people like you online and I'm sick of arguing against you guys anymore

 

[Arienai]

Oh BTW, here's the interview that says it has better stealth.

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[pipaster]

Retooling, supply chain management, retraining (production staff and maintenance staff) will all take large efforts with potential J-20 manufacturing changes. On top of all this you will have to recertify the aircraft which will take a substantial effort too.

I would think at this stage of the J-20 project it is probably not worth the effort to radically change the manufacturing methods used. Small changes, refinements etc. obviously will happen.

 

[tphuang]

I said retooling because you said they'll incorporate the advancement made at developing J35A on J20 as well, which if you want to change how J20 is produce fundamentally, then obviously retooling is needed. Not saying it will happen because I said its current rate is already impressive.

you are obviously going to be retooling for J-20A. The procurement justifies it.

You are going to be using new RAM, new titanium alloy, new carbon fiber composite material. The entire plumbing of j-20A should also be changing due to the new power requirement.

And as for your "J20 is all you need" mentality, well I've seen too many people like you online and I'm sick of arguing against you guys anymore

It's not a matter of J-20 is all you need. It's a matter of what your needs are and that affects your procurement. China and PLA have their own list of priorities from security to industrial to strategic to consider. I'm not privy to that. There are certainly logic to picking up on J-35A as I discussed earlier.

Oh BTW, here's the interview that says it has better stealth.

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that does not say J-35A has better stealth than J-20A. It just says PLA requested higher stealth requirement. Well, J-20A also has higher stealth requirement than J-20.