J-21

Maggern said:

Quite right. It was very fun to watch how the different parties (some expressly anti-US) in Norway taking a stance in the new generation fighter program. As expected, after all arguments had been used by the government, they ended up with "when all is said an done, we need to continue to keep close military ties to the US, our main ally", and thus made it a purely political question rather than technological or military strategic.

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Well, military is a political tool. So if they think buying American planes will help them achieve their goals, it should be it. Let's face it, to Norway, it's better to have an ally like the US and along with F-35 than having a slightly superior plane and jeopardizing an alliance with the US. Having a slightly superior plane (on paper) vs. having the combined might of the sole super power on the planet backing you up? Which one would you pick, as a small nation? Choosing an alliance is so much bigger than picking any individual weapon system.

vesicles said:

Well, military is a political tool. So if they think buying American planes will help them achieve their goals, it should be it. Let's face it, to Norway, it's better to have an ally like the US and along with F-35 than having a slightly superior plane and jeopardizing an alliance with the US. Having a slightly superior plane (on paper) vs. having the combined might of the sole super power on the planet backing you up? Which one would you pick, as a small nation? Choosing an alliance is so much bigger than picking any individual weapon system.

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Where is that terrible risk to Norway that they need to buy aircraft they don't need for their defense? Iceland is even more lonely. It isn't buying such aircraft. Is it because Norway has a lot of oil money?

delft said:

Where is that terrible risk to Norway that they need to buy aircraft they don't need for their defense? Iceland is even more lonely. It isn't buying such aircraft. Is it because Norway has a lot of oil money?

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let's face it when putin rear its ugly head over the pole it will be only US-through-NATO that can come and save the day,

same argument exists for saudi arabia and the assorted gulf kingdoms states.

i.e. said:

let's face it when putin rear its ugly head over the pole it will be only US-through-NATO that can come and save the day,

same argument exists for saudi arabia and the assorted gulf kingdoms states.

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The demarcation of the sea border between Norway and Russia was signed in 2010. There are no significant problems left between these countries. So what has the head of Putin to do with this?

delft said:

The demarcation of the sea border between Norway and Russia was signed in 2010. There are no significant problems left between these countries. So what has the head of Putin to do with this?

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we don't have to go to anything specific. In general, the overall interest of a nation outweighs the benefit of getting any specific weapon systems. The deal that Norway gets for the loyalty to the US may not even be military at all. It could be some kind of economic/political deal that would benefit the nation. It could even be simply getting on the good side of the US for the future. We don't know. The only thing we do know is that those Norwegians are not stupid. They made their decisions based on their national interests.

Also, for all we know, the US has had an excellent track record for putting out great weapon systems, especially fighters, while China is only in the process of doing that. To the best that I know, F-22 is still the system to beat, the benchmark. There would be no doubt that F-35 would be anything less. It is perfectly logical for Norway to decide to buy the American system, just like betting the Patriots to win the Super Bowl. Although they lost, it's perfectly logical to assume they would win it because what they have done in the past and, of course, Tom Brady...

I best remember the aircraft from my youth. The A-4 of that time is, after more than half a century, still of some use. But I also remember, vividly, the F-104G, a truly ridiculous aircraft. Of the German machines about a quarter crashed, with great loss of pilots. The F-105 was slaughtered over North Vietnam ....