J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:

Funny, that doesn't seem to jibe well with the US DoD getting angry at Lockheed moving the end of testing timetable back to 2015.

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Yup, the info I've gotten from the Norwegian media is that our airforce now doesn't expect to get the plane until 2015-2020

Re: New Generation Fighter

Yes, Munir, I live in Holland. And our parlament is not sure thar it really wants these aircraft,
that are getting more expensive two or three times a year.

Re: New Generation Fighter

There's another way to deal with any sort of RCS increase created by canards: build retractable canards (of course, that entails a lot of engineering headaches).

Re: New Generation Fighter

delft said:

Yes, Munir, I live in Holland. And our parlament is not sure thar it really wants these aircraft,
that are getting more expensive two or three times a year.

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The problem is that the Netherlands is a level 2 partner, and has invested a lot of money into development of the F-35, there must be concerns with the massive costs of the F-35 but is the Netherlands really in a position to not purchase the aircraft that they spent over $800 million USD worth in developing?

Re: New Generation Fighter

I have been visiting a few presentations about this JSF. Even at Delft... And all I heard was that it is good to be part of jsf. We all know it is just a political choice. Just as the Starfighter, the f5 and yes the f16... We laugh at other nations but if you know how political choices are made you will start crying... Very loud.

So here we join US development by selling every knowledge have to US for the lowest price possible and if they do not know how to solve it. After that you will produce these items in the US and the property rights will be US... No wonder they screwed Fokker here. Now the rest of it (called Stork) is trying to do some more selling of our soul...

We all know about the noise problem. Let us forget the problems it causes even with hearing aids. Where will we fly them if we have all airbases near to big places? And it reminds me of the old days... What will we do with these planes without serious assistance of F22? You do not start a netcentric war with just JSF... Neither are you allowed to alter the black boxes or do maintenance... Well, here you are while you could have Gripen NG or EF2000...

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

The J-XX will be seeking to achieve parity with the F-22 -- late last year on CCTV a PLAAF general said somethign along the lines of "going to match the F-22 as close as possible" (performance wise).

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The performance on American planes is always understated by a great deal. The number built that are made public is also not the true number.

Centrist said:

Most people would argue that the J-XX would be in between the T-50 and F22 in terms of overall capability.

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How can you be sure of this. Neither is completed yet, and Russia has far more experience.

Re: New Generation Fighter

For the defence of the Netherlands L-15 would be good enough. We're not going to fight UK, Germany or Belgium. Except that the US are going to attack us, if US war criminals were to be prosecuted by the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

Re: New Generation Fighter

delft said:

For the defence of the Netherlands L-15 would be good enough. We're not going to fight UK, Germany or Belgium. Except that the US are going to attack us, if US war criminals were to be prosecuted by the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

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I wish that we had Fokker and we could have worked together with Sweden. Now it is such a waste of funds. You truly wrote the correct conclusion. We are in the middle of the European Union. Middle of NATO. We can only be attacked by the USA when we want them to trial for mass murdering. And that is never going to happen. I think the best will be disposing landmacht and luchtmacht but increase our naval forces. That is what we were the best. And that is where we can contribute. We are making land and defend against the sea... We should not fight others coalitions of the willing or crusades. But if you look at the government at the moment... We can forget that.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Sorry guys .. but could we please go back to the topic !??

It's a bit annoying to receive a messege of a "new reply" ... only to read something about the Netherlands, their JSF-involvement and so on.

Thanks, Deino

Re: New Generation Fighter

defaultuser1 said:

The performance on American planes is always understated by a great deal. The number built that are made public is also not the true number.


How can you be sure of this. Neither is completed yet, and Russia has far more experience.

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Not the true number??? the US military can hide F-22 performance, but not the numbers. Otherwise there would be major political crisis if found out.

As for Russia, yes they have more experience, specially engines, but their R&D capability has degraded a lot since the end of the USSR. T-50 from 2010 is inferior to F-22 from 1990.

Meanwhile china has learned a lot. It still not quite at russia level, but its catching on