J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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dingyibvs

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

:eek:ff The problem with Gs that pull you down into the seat is that they also force the blood out of the brain into the legs. With Anti-G-Straining-Maneuvers and G protection suites pilots in todays fighters can withstand 9G for about 30s. At least I think that's what the training profiles in centrifuges go up to. But that is also really physicly exhausting.
On the F-16 the seat is tilted back for example, so it's not 100% head-to-feat Gs, but more transverse Gs, wich are far less worth.
At some point there is a limit to what technology can do, however. :eek:ff

Like someone else said, I don't think anything's impossible. Let's think outside the box a little bit, what about a free-rotating virtual cockpit? The pilot would sit in a compartment which rotates as the plane accelerates in different directions so that the pilot is always facing the direction of acceleration. That way, blood will ALWAYS be pulled to the back of his head, kind of like astronauts in a space shuttle. Since he will always face the direction of acceleration rather than the front of the plane as one would now, keep screens all around him for ~360 degree view.

Personally I think the G-limitation problem could be overcome, without fancy "inertial dampening devices", with this:

Unmanned Combat Vehicles.

I believe that future jet fighters will no longer be limited by a human pilot. Just think about how much training goes into a human pilot and how simple it is for a trained technician to control a glorified "RC Plane". Perhaps the absence of a pilot will mark the boundary between 5th and 6th generation fighter planes :D.

The problem with that is that they'll always require a datalink, and all datalink can be hacked one way or another, using espionage if needed. Your assets might be disabled by the push of a button, or they may even be turned against you. One security leak can mean the end of everything, very risky.
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Just a couple of centuries in the past... flying is also thought to be unthinkable. Right up to the early 90s, no one actually expect computer to be as wide spread as now.

Technology evolve. Although not at present moment, but in future, what will it evolved into? And at the rate of evolution, nothing is impossible now. Why we are not seeing this product at present moment is not because it is impossible but it is not worth doing. However if in near future when there are actually needs to do it, you can bet that it will happen pretty fast.

Finally since the theory behind how G-force actually affect human being, there can be ways to counter it...

I will not go any further... because this is kind of off topic. I just intent to tell everyone here, that there is no such thing as 'impossible' in today's context.

Same thing as, there is no such thing as 'absolute theory'... which go in the line of 'Canards are bad for stealth.', 'G-force cannot be countered', and stuff like that.
Technology is unlimited, but not the human body. The human body can only go so far till limits are reach, no matter how you think nothing is impossible. Well it doesn't apply to human body. We ain't gonna run 100km/h, no matter how more us humans are gonna evolve.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: New Generation Fighter

Technology is unlimited, but not the human body. The human body can only go so far till limits are reach, no matter how you think nothing is impossible. Well it doesn't apply to human body. We ain't gonna run 100km/h, no matter how more us humans are gonna evolve.

Yes. I understand that human body cannot do something or withstand certain forces. What I am implying is that technology could help in counteracting certain situations that could cause failure to human body other wise.

In the past, human body cannot withstand a single blow of a club. That is why armour is designed and created to provide protection to the body.

Human cannot run 100km/hour, that is why we have cars. We cannot reach 10000miles from home by walking in a single day, that is why we design aircraft.

So if you follow this trend... we cannot hope to survive a huge G-force... but we can develope something that could enabled us to survive that huge G-force maneuvre... not physically surviving, but reducing the G-force that is going to act on the body.
 

Scratch

Captain
Re: New Generation Fighter

If an airplane is pulling Gs (turning), those Gs act on every part of that aircraft, hence, if you as a pilot want to stay with that A/C, you have to fight those same Gs.
In an airplane, due to it's design, the problem will always be downward Gs. Now you can tilt the seat ever more backward until the pilot lies straight on his/her back. But at some point is becomes impractical to design such a cockpit.
And the free floating cockpit is not gonna happen, IMO. Even if you could built such an interactive 3D cinema into a fighter plane, spinning the pilot around in 3 axees while the aircraft is yanking around itself, will make the organs in the inner ear go crazy instantaneously, that'll be the fastest and most severe spacial disorientation ever.
 

dingyibvs

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

If an airplane is pulling Gs (turning), those Gs act on every part of that aircraft, hence, if you as a pilot want to stay with that A/C, you have to fight those same Gs.
In an airplane, due to it's design, the problem will always be downward Gs. Now you can tilt the seat ever more backward until the pilot lies straight on his/her back. But at some point is becomes impractical to design such a cockpit.
And the free floating cockpit is not gonna happen, IMO. Even if you could built such an interactive 3D cinema into a fighter plane, spinning the pilot around in 3 axees while the aircraft is yanking around itself, will make the organs in the inner ear go crazy instantaneously, that'll be the fastest and most severe spacial disorientation ever.

Don't fighter planes spin around in 3 axes all the time these days anyway? All I really did was to convert all the lateral movements to a vector that points to your back. Also, in this system, during situations when the pilots usually do spin, the cockpit can simply remain still while the plane rotates around him, thus actually eliminating any rotational effects on the pilot during many maneuvers.
 

Scratch

Captain
Re: New Generation Fighter

I see what you mean. If you want to have the seat adjust to the predominat G force, basicly you have to tilt it so the pilot lies on his back, that's basicly the only direction into wich Gs in an airplane really go. Somewhat fore & aft also if you rapidly accelerate / deccelerate in straight flight.
So you might want a seat that can do that to have the pilot rather upright for normal in flight position, and that tilts back to help sustaining Gs.
But more is neither necessary for the problem, nor is it at all feasable, IMO.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: New Generation Fighter

I don't know if there's credibility to this but FugitiveVisions over at CDF says a guy that posted a poem about the J-10B right before the first appearance of the J-10B on the net just posted another poem about the J-XX.

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Hyperwarp

Captain
Re: New Generation Fighter

I don't know if there's credibility to this but FugitiveVisions over at CDF says a guy that posted a poem about the J-10B right before the first appearance of the J-10B on the net just posted another poem about the J-XX.

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So can someone decipher this, especially us non-Chinese speakers.....

please....:eek: ?
 

dingyibvs

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Now, I left China when I was 11, and haven't taken any Chinese classes since, so my Chinese is pretty rusty. But according to interpretation of the posters on the linked forum, it seems to talk about these things:

1) Celebrating the 40th anniversary of the 611 institute(40 years ago)

2) More celebratory words

3) J-7III

4) J-10, mentions the 98 first flight

5) Probably has something to do with the new fighter.

The 5th verse goes something like:

2000 years have now passed, a new generation can now take pride.
Researching and creating for a new step forward, the heavenly army constructs new defenses for the sky.

Pretty cryptic stuff.
 

danielchin

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

It's a traditional Chinese poem the author wrote to celebrate the anniversary of 611 institute:

所庆有怀

(一)
弹指光阴四十年,如今沧海换桑田。
科研旺盛精英聚,型号纷繁捷报传。
收益提升增笑口,人居改善酿欢颜。
更谋长远向西去,再续辉煌写巨篇。
basically said 40 years have passed, a few new projects also have triumphed.
(二)
四十年前热血燃,几多先辈聚西南。
齐心筑就蓝天路,始得航空枝叶繁。
briefly, the 40 years hard working has paved the road to the blue sky.
(三)
初攻歼九路多难,罢战挥师歼七三。
宋总领头如破竹,银鹰展翅起黄田。
after abandoned the bumpy J-9 project, J-7III finally took the sky.
(四)
苏美称雄强敌环,空防孱弱唤新歼。
文骢出马尘埃定,九八龙腾三二三。
Under the hostile Russia and US threat, dragon flied on 3/23, 1998.
(五)
时针已过两千年,一代新人豪气翻。
探索创新求跨越,神兵再铸卫蓝天。
time has passed year 2000, new bloods will surpass the past and forge the divine weapon to protect the sky.

So, the focus of this poem is the sentence I use bold type and underlined: could that be the new generation fighter (or was J-10's first fly in 1998?)?
 
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