J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

rhino123 said:

I have a question for the experts here... I have look at a number of US fighters (F-15, F-16, F-22 and even the new F-35) none of them have carnards... and I am wondering, do we actually need carnards at all. If carnards is such a good idea... why do the US not use them... there must be something out there that the American seen and/or know that is not too happy with that they ultimately abandon or did not even take into consideration when designing for their fighters.

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I’m no expert, but I don’t think there is anything about canards that the rest of the world doesn’t know that the US knows. Pelikin wings and Bullpup style guns aren’t in use by the US military does that mean they are worse? I don’t think so. As you probably already know, there are pros and cons to Delta wings. It’s cheaper to make, better speed performance when supersonic (possibility better lift as well) but sacrifices maneuverability at higher speeds and lower altitudes.

Canards were implemented to improve on these handicaps, but I believe that make an aircraft less stealthy and maybe redundant with the advent of TVC? Delta wings also haven’t been used by the US since the SR-71 and combined with its relative unfamiliarity with it and a lot of new and complex technologies like stealth, supercruise, TVC, VSTOL engineers may not have wanted to take another risk.

Re: New Generation Fighter

In4ser said:

I’m no expert, but I don’t think there is anything about canards that the rest of the world doesn’t know that the US knows. Pelikin wings and Bullpup style guns aren’t in use by the US military does that mean they are worse? I don’t think so. As you probably already know, there are pros and cons to Delta wings. It’s cheaper to make, better speed performance when supersonic (possibility better lift as well) but sacrifices maneuverability at higher speeds and lower altitudes.

Canards were implemented to improve on these handicaps, but I believe that make an aircraft less stealthy and maybe redundant with the advent of TVC? Delta wings also haven’t been used by the US since the SR-71 and combined with its relative unfamiliarity with it and a lot of new and complex technologies like stealth, supercruise, TVC, VSTOL engineers may not have wanted to take another risk.

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I don't think canards themselves are bad for stealth. Rather it's how they're implemented in order to maximize their effectiveness. They're usually most beneficial when placed outside the main planform of the plane. On the other hand if place along the main planform, they'd probably still provide a modest benefit in maneuverability and lift while still being stealthy.

Re: New Generation Fighter

King_Comm said:

China already has three types of AESA radar in service, Russia has none. China produces millions of MMIC's each year for its telecommunication industry, while I can't find any Russian commercial MMIC producers on Google.

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you are refering L- band and C-band T/R MMIC, fabricating and manufacturing low R/F T/R MMIC is quite different than high t/r mmic X-band MMIC which is far more complicated. what we really needed is data on Chinese X-band t/r MMIC,

Re: New Generation Fighter

given the high cost of manufacturing X-band T/R MMIC, China may turn to Russia to purchased MMIC.there is mass production line in Ufa.
even the US encounter cost problem, original cost for single MMIC is $7000 ,now is $700.

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

given the high cost of manufacturing X-band T/R MMIC, China may turn to Russia to purchased MMIC.there is mass production line in Ufa.
even the US encounter cost problem, original cost for single MMIC is $7000 ,now is $700.

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Lol I swear we've had this discussion before....

Re: New Generation Fighter

Just have to note that from the information available Chinese engine development is generally behind schedule and not up to par. The WS-15 (or whatever the engine slated for the J-XX is called now) has very high performance targets, but the WS-10 is still not ready for deployment on the J-10 and the JF-17/FC-1 is still using Russian engines.

I don't doubt that it's possible that the Chinese aerospace industry has mastered the turbofan technology for the Chinese third-generation aircraft, but it's unlikely from the information available. We should assume that the J-XX will be on Russian engines unless shown otherwise.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Inst said:

I don't doubt that it's possible that the Chinese aerospace industry has mastered the turbofan technology for the Chinese third-generation aircraft, but it's unlikely from the information available. We should assume that the J-XX will be on Russian engines unless shown otherwise.

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Some healthy skepticism is definitely needed, I agree - but until we get reports saying the WS-15/J-XX engine is completely behind scheduale like what the WS-10 was/is, assuming J-XX to be on Russian engines is... not giving the engineers the benefit of doubt. From everything we've heard from maya, it sounds like WS-15 development is going quite well, better than WS-10.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

Some healthy skepticism is definitely needed, I agree - but until we get reports saying the WS-15/J-XX engine is completely behind scheduale like what the WS-10 was/is, assuming J-XX to be on Russian engines is... not giving the engineers the benefit of doubt. From everything we've heard from maya, it sounds like WS-15 development is going quite well, better than WS-10.

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That's to be expected though. The WS-10 was a major endeavour and a first for China. Experience from developing the WS-10 should greatly expedite the development of any future engine China makes.

Re: New Generation Fighter

test flights will be conducted with WS-10. WS-15 will come in later. it is said to be progressing beyond expectation...but prolly will still have difficulties later on. should be operational by 2020 though.

Re: New Generation Fighter

pla101prc said:

test flights will be conducted with WS-10. WS-15 will come in later. it is said to be progressing beyond expectation...but prolly will still have difficulties later on. should be operational by 2020 though.

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I'd say that's a probable timeline - we might first see WS-15 testing on J-XX in 2015 ish, if we say it'd be operational with WS-15 by 2020