J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

... and electronic technology still beyond the capability of Chinese aerospace .

and the ability to mass produce T/R MMIC which critical .
other such as composite fiber technology.

Click to expand...

China already has three types of AESA radar in service, Russia has none. China produces millions of MMIC's each year for its telecommunication industry, while I can't find any Russian commercial MMIC producers on Google.

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

Such blockers usually considerably reduce the engine thrust...

Click to expand...

Yeah the 1st prototype doesn't have one. It seems the engine can't handle it.

70092 said:

...and even with the blocker is still not as steathy.
Wonder why X-32 failed?

Click to expand...

From what I have read, the X-32 lost due weight and some other issues and not because of the RCS. RCS requirements were met and was marginally better than the X-35 IIRC (, ).

But what sort of serious side effects a complicated blocker will have on the engine performance is another matter (, ).

Off-course remember the Russian's themselves admitted the T-50 is going to be more conservative the F-22. I guess they have gone for a compromise.

Its good to hear the J-XX is definitely NOT going to be a compromise in anyway..... I have read your posts and the J-XX sounds like an exciting prospect.....

Re: New Generation Fighter

I have a question for the experts here... I have look at a number of US fighters (F-15, F-16, F-22 and even the new F-35) none of them have carnards... and I am wondering, do we actually need carnards at all. If carnards is such a good idea... why do the US not use them... there must be something out there that the American seen and/or know that is not too happy with that they ultimately abandon or did not even take into consideration when designing for their fighters.

Re: New Generation Fighter

King_Comm said:

China already has three types of AESA radar in service, Russia has none. China produces millions of MMIC's each year for its telecommunication industry, while I can't find any Russian commercial MMIC producers on Google.

Click to expand...

Excuse me but would you care to elaborate on that? So far the only confirmed Chinese airborne AESA is deployed on KJ2000, which is, I'm afraid, not indicative re. the progress they've made on AESA for fighters.

Russia on the other hand did equip a bunch of PESAs such as Bars or Zhuk-ME.

I'm not arguing against the speculations about equiping J10B or J11B with AESAs, yet we probably have to wait for this year's Zhuhai air show to confirm that.

Re: New Generation Fighter

EDIATH said:

Excuse me but would you care to elaborate on that? So far the only confirmed Chinese airborne AESA is deployed on KJ2000, which is, I'm afraid, not indicative re. the progress they've made on AESA for fighters.

Russia on the other hand did equip a bunch of PESAs such as Bars or Zhuk-ME.

I'm not arguing against the speculations about equiping J10B or J11B with AESAs, yet we probably have to wait for this year's Zhuhai air show to confirm that.

Click to expand...

There's KJ-2000 as you said, and also the 052C destroyer has the four distinctive AESA antennaes, and the KJ-200 balance beam AESA (the saab erieye lookalike)

And wouldn't having the capability to produce aesa's be more indicative on the progress of AESAs for fighters compared to having the capability to produce PESA fighter radars? It at least shows China's able to produce MMIC's for their radars, which I understand is what challenge is claiming as a big hurdle.

Re: New Generation Fighter

EDIATH said:

Excuse me but would you care to elaborate on that? So far the only confirmed Chinese airborne AESA is deployed on KJ2000, which is, I'm afraid, not indicative re. the progress they've made on AESA for fighters.

Russia on the other hand did equip a bunch of PESAs such as Bars or Zhuk-ME.

I'm not arguing against the speculations about equiping J10B or J11B with AESAs, yet we probably have to wait for this year's Zhuhai air show to confirm that.

Click to expand...

When did PLAAF will tell you what radar J-10 is using during Zuhai Air show?

If you can read Chinese, they is lots of credible website from the manufacturer or institute involved in the China AESA project reporting the progress they have make on China AESA radar.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

There's KJ-2000 as you said, and also the 052C destroyer has the four distinctive AESA antennaes, and the KJ-200 balance beam AESA (the saab erieye lookalike)

And wouldn't having the capability to produce aesa's be more indicative on the progress of AESAs for fighters compared to having the capability to produce PESA fighter radars? It at least shows China's able to produce MMIC's for their radars, which I understand is what challenge is claiming as a big hurdle.

Click to expand...

Shall I say "size matters"?

The cost-effective production of T/R modules is no doubt a major challenge, but don't forget stuff like data process or cooling, all major hurdles for an airborne AESA I assure you.

Btw russians developed Zhuk-A/AE for MiG35 a couple of years ago, guess that counts as AESA as well.

To Lion: no, I haven't got the "catalogue" for Zhuhai air show since I'm not a potential customer. I mentioned it because it's a major publicity event for both PLAAF & AVIC i.e. Where observers of Chinese military affairs find answers to all kinds of questions.

And I'm sure they have progressed far on AESA used on current or future generations of fighters, we just have to wait & see...

Re: New Generation Fighter

EDIATH said:

Shall I say "size matters"?

The cost-effective production of T/R modules is no doubt a major challenge, but don't forget stuff like data process or cooling, all major hurdles for an airborne AESA I assure you.

Click to expand...

I would think that it's a much shorter path data processing from a larger to a smaller AESA array than it is from a PESA array to an AESA array.

Re: New Generation Fighter

EDIATH said:

...
Russia on the other hand did equip a bunch of PESAs such as Bars or Zhuk-ME

Click to expand...

What? Zhuk-ME is NOT a PESA - . ZhuK-MFE, Zhuk-MSFE are PESAs but never entered service. Zaslon, V004, N011M are on the other hand in service.

But then again the USA did not field many airborne PESA (exceptions were B-1B). They seem to be jumping directly from MSA to AESA.

EDIATH said:

...
Btw russians developed Zhuk-A/AE for MiG35 a couple of years ago, guess that counts as AESA as well.
...

Click to expand...

Well that is not in service. So far no customers. It seems MiG-35 failed several requirements in the Indian MMRCA and is pretty much out. MiG-29K just entered service with the Indian Navy but it has the Zhuk-ME.

More important developments would be the NIIP X-Band & L-Band AESAs for the T-50. Now those will definitely enter service.

The J-10B is speculated to carry an X-band AESA developed by the 607 Institute. But as I said speculated. There are several other airborne AESA which are not X-Band (H/LJG346 variants).

Re: New Generation Fighter

Hyperwarp said:

What? Zhuk-ME is NOT a PESA -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

. ZhuK-MFE, Zhuk-MSFE are PESAs but never entered service. Zaslon, V004, N011M are on the other hand in service.

But then again the USA did not field many airborne PESA (exceptions were B-1B). They seem to be jumping directly from MSA to AESA.



Well that is not in service. So far no customers. It seems MiG-35 failed several requirements in the Indian MMRCA and is pretty much out. MiG-29K just entered service with the Indian Navy but it has the Zhuk-ME.

More important developments would be the NIIP X-Band & L-Band AESAs for the T-50. Now those will definitely enter service.

The J-10B is speculated to carry an X-band AESA developed by the 607 Institute. But as I said speculated. There are several other airborne AESA which are not X-Band (H/LJG346 variants).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info mate, hard to get around with the Russian variety.

Now I remember someone suggested in another thread (the one for J10?) the relatively flat nose section of J10B implies an AESA since its antennas are static & can be placed slanted.