J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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siegecrossbow

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Re: New Generation Fighter

I think we all can agree that the Chinese will have to learn about stealth just like the US did. The just didn't develop the F-22; first was the F-117, then the B-2, then the F-22. They obviously incorporated lessons learned by designing, testing, operating and maintaining those aircraft. We will just have to wait and see if the Chinese are able to shorten the learning curve.

The Russians went ahead with the T-50 despite not having experience with the stealth before. I know this is different but China developed the high-speed rail system in 5-6 years so I am optmistic about the shortening of learning curve.
 

rhino123

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Re: New Generation Fighter

The Russians went ahead with the T-50 despite not having experience with the stealth before. I know this is different but China developed the high-speed rail system in 5-6 years so I am optmistic about the shortening of learning curve.

It is always more difficult with country to develope something that was a pioneer in the technology (meaning that no one in this world had ever done it before). That is why US went about developing of the F-117 and B-2 first.

When the technology is ripe and they are more confident and experience in the stealth design did they actually go about F-22 and F-35.

My personal opinion is that once US had developed the F-22 and showed it off to the world, others can basically copied the shape of the aircraft, model it and see how the geometry of the design help in reduction of radar cross section.

However it is quite another matter to develope similar material, engine and avonic of the aircraft.

I think the Chinese's developement of the WS-10A would give them some insight into more model engine design and their experience with modern fighter like the J-11 and J-10 series of fighter also gave them some experience with modern avonic and software developement. However material might still be a weakness in the Chinese aerospace industries.

They might come out with a very stealthy design, but in terms of very specific details, the new fighter might still not be on par with the F-22 or F-35. It might be approaching the standard of these two fighters...

Anyway, that is just my two cents.
 

Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

I predict that China will have at least 20 stealthy fighters comparable to PAK-FA and F-35 by the year 2017. However, it'll probably take China until the year 2025 for it to make a fighter as stealthy as the F-22 Raptor.:(
I doubt china would make a whole new stealth fighter just to get on par with the F-22, in the hypothetical 2025 scenario.

Maybe refine the J-XX a little, but it'll be a waste of resources to build a new fighter ground up.

And there's also the matter of doctrine -- the F-22 is designed to penetrate enemy airspace as much as air superiority, therefore it'll have greater all aspect stealth whereas the J-XX could be designed with air superiority as its primary objective so, for example the engines might not have the flap type nozzles like the F-22.
 

70092

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

It is always more difficult with country to develope something that was a pioneer in the technology (meaning that no one in this world had ever done it before). That is why US went about developing of the F-117 and B-2 first.

When the technology is ripe and they are more confident and experience in the stealth design did they actually go about F-22 and F-35.

My personal opinion is that once US had developed the F-22 and showed it off to the world, others can basically copied the shape of the aircraft, model it and see how the geometry of the design help in reduction of radar cross section.

However it is quite another matter to develope similar material, engine and avonic of the aircraft.

I think the Chinese's developement of the WS-10A would give them some insight into more model engine design and their experience with modern fighter like the J-11 and J-10 series of fighter also gave them some experience with modern avonic and software developement. However material might still be a weakness in the Chinese aerospace industries.

They might come out with a very stealthy design, but in terms of very specific details, the new fighter might still not be on par with the F-22 or F-35. It might be approaching the standard of these two fighters...

Anyway, that is just my two cents.

I dont think stealth material would be a problem, Chinese have manage to grab some F-117A's material during the last Yoguslavia's war, and they found the stealth coating on F-117A is merely on par with what they have had since 5-6 years ago.

They also get AESA radar ready (check the post I posted earlier), the chief designer of the AESA radar is quite confident about his radar, and one thing needed to know is AESA radar may not even be the best China has since the insitute who developed this AESA radar is well known to be ranked as No.2 in this area.

But of cause, the AESA radar is likely still be inferior to the american's counterparts.

The biggest concerns for the XXJ is the engine.

WS-15, even under the most optimistic scenario, wont be ready until 2015, therefore, the maiden flight will likely using under-powered engines like WS-10 or AL-31F.

The problem with last generation engine like WS-10/AL-31F or even American's F-135 is that these engines has too high a bypass ratio to allow the fighter to do super-cruise.

In general, a super-cruise-capable engine should not get bypass ratio beyond 0.3 or so, whilst last generation engines like WS-10/AL-31F get a bypass ratio of 0.6-0.7+, which means no chance for super-cruise.

My best bet is:

The PLAAF would rather prefer to install WS-10/AL-31F etc on the early batch of fighters (XXJ with WS-10/AL-31F is still vastly better than J-11/Su-27 with WS-10/AL-31F, whilst the latter may not cost a whole lot cheaper so the choice is obvious), and laterly get vastly updated version of XXJ when WS-15 finally ready.

Russia has done that before with their MiG-23, they have done that to an even more extreme degree: the earlier batch of MiG-23 can be called a MiG-21bis with MiG-23 aerodynamic layout, but 3 years later, they get a vastly updated MiG-23, with a 30% more powerful engine.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: New Generation Fighter

Huitong's last entry a few days ago says rumor is a prototype has been built. I read on the fyjs board rumor of a taxi runway test has occurred.
 

prototype

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

The Russians went ahead with the T-50 despite not having experience with the stealth before. I know this is different but China developed the high-speed rail system in 5-6 years so I am optmistic about the shortening of learning curve.

Russian's did not developed T-50 overnight,that was a gradual and continuous process,American's together with Russian's master aerospace and aviation,no doubt about it
 

tphuang

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Re: New Generation Fighter

there are some rumours on Chinese forum of this and it does make sense if they plan to have it achieve IOC before the end of the decade. But until we get some photos coming out (probably in 2 or 3 years), let's just hold off on the excitement.
 

Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

Hmmm ... where ???

Here
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... is no update !?

Deino:confused:

Supposedly...
One rumor in May 2010 suggested that 611 Institute started to construct the first prototype, which is expected to fly by 2012, even though the full configuration one won't fly until a few years later. The latest rumor (October 2010) claimed that the first prototype has been constructed.

No pictures though.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

i think a couple of weeks ago there was news of PLAAF bosses visiting Chengdu, apparently many thought they were there to inspect the prototype
 
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