J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Schumacher said:

Did Janes offer any evidence or did they say it was just wishful thinking ? LOL

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Heres a section doing the rounds on various forums.

Note not all is posted because of copyright infringements


Jane's has learnt that China is using Russian-sourced -117S engines (a heavily modified AL-31F) to power its fifth-generation design - at least as far as prototype and development aircraft are concerned. This engine powers Russia's own fifth-generation fighter, the Sukhoi T-50. Despite attempts to replicate previous generations of Russian fighter engines for its own aircraft, China's industry has failed to do so reliably. Its dependence on foreign technology, and specifically Russian engines, particularly as it embarks on its next generation of designs is an embarrassment for China's designers and a major obstacle to building a truly indigenous military aircraft industry. Russia is now dealing with a Chinese request to acquire an unknown number of -117S engines upon which Chengdu will rely for some time to come.
Military training

Date Posted: 20-Dec-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly
Window on China

Robert Hewson, Jane's Air-Launched Weapons Editor, London

Re: New Generation Fighter

i wouldnt rely on jane's when it comes to pla weapons and equipment. they have very little sources inside china and a lot of information are from russian sources and we know how 'reliable' russian sources are when it comes to chinese equipment.

'j-15 is less advanced than our su-33'..........

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

IMO A bit premature with the self congratulations. A rumour from janes, is that the chinese are supposed to be using 117S engines, so until China is truely able develop equally capable indigenous engines you've got diddly squat if the Russians play hardball with the supply.
on another note some other interesting info from Janes

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Well, the prototypes at least have engines, and testing can commence. I don't see problems developing between Russia and China anytime soon, and additional engines for additional prototypes will be no problem.

As to actual production, there are two factors that go against your reasoning. First is that Russia doesn't exactly mind making the US or Japan nervous, and this plane does exactly that. Moreover, China has pretty much shown in the last decade and more, that Russia is a friend it does not want to loose. The reasons for China's position regarding Russia are not going to change anytime soon, and perhaps never, and I think the Russians have figured this out.

The second matter is that the speed of Chinese technological development has been pretty amazing, especially in the last couple of years. The expansion of the university system from 2000 forward has been paying off handsomely. Chinese weakness in engines, during the next few years, will become one of their strengths.

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

Heres a section doing the rounds on various forums.

Note not all is posted because of copyright infringements

Jane's has learnt that China is using Russian-sourced -117S engines (a heavily modified AL-31F) to power its fifth-generation design - at least as far as prototype and development aircraft are concerned. ...............

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Hmm ...... I asked for evidence by Janes of their claim and you simply posted their claim. So they 'learnt' about the 117S claim in their sleep ? LOL

Re: Latest J-20 picture rotated for ease of viewing

Martian said:

Original picture:

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Wow this is the clearest picture by far. I wonder how close the guy got to the plane.

Re: New Generation Fighter

The F-117 also have dark paint, could the colour scheme of the J-xx have been derived from the material used on the F-117, one of which was shot down over serbia?

Re: New Generation Fighter

no_name said:

The F-117 also have dark paint, could the colour scheme of the J-xx have been derived from the material used on the F-117, one of which was shot down over serbia?

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The deep-green is the material used for the plane, the base color of the stealth coating is claimed to be around the color leaked in the cocktail shown in Zhuhai, which is deep grey, not deep-green, but it seems that the deep-green material has better adhesion with that stealth coating material.

As for F-117's coating, Chinese do get them, but seems that quite unimpressed by its performance, only comparable to the Chinese coating material developed around the simliar time (1990s).

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

The deep-green is the material used for the plane, the base color of the stealth coating is claimed to be around the color leaked in the cocktail shown in Zhuhai, which is deep grey, not deep-green, but it seems that the deep-green material has better adhesion with that stealth coating material.

As for F-117's coating, Chinese do get them, but seems that quite unimpressed by its performance, only comparable to the Chinese coating material developed around the simliar time (1990s).

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To be fair coating is only one part of the RCS reduction measure. The shape of the plane is far more important.

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

Another new pic of J-20

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Well this clarifies the earlier blurry photos. The earlier photo that was pieced together was missing a segment, making the J-20 look too short in length. We can also clearly see the canards now. The earlier photos from the front didn't clearly show the canards.

One point is really noticeable. It looks like the wing is higher on the fuselage. All the CGIs had the wings either centerline on the fuselage or lower down on the fuselage. In this way, J-20 looks more like F-22 and T-50 than YF-23 Blackwidow. Perhaps there's a design reason for this.

Closest CGI so far is the one on Sinodefence and Huitong's site.

bladerunner said:

IMO A bit premature with the self congratulations. A rumour from janes, is that the chinese are supposed to be using 117S engines, so until China is truely able develop equally capable indigenous engines you've got diddly squat if the Russians play hardball with the supply.
on another note some other interesting info from Janes

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Are you here on the J-XX thread just to troll?

70092 said:

As for F-117's coating, Chinese do get them, but seems that quite unimpressed by its performance, only comparable to the Chinese coating material developed around the simliar time (1990s).

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Interesting, didn't know that.

Re: New Generation Fighter

pugachev_diver said:

that picture was very likely photoshopped, looks really real, probably done by some pro. i got this feeling because PLAAF tradition is to keep the body yellow until formally entering service. Even if this was formally painted, it shouldve have been the common grayish colour used by the PLAAF, the one we see in the picture looks almost like the jak series soviet planes from the 70's.
the biggest reason that i say this is a fake is because i have watched a chinese military show before, the analyst said clearly that china would do it similar to what the russians did, which they would do the 3rd gen, 3.5, then finally into the 4th generation fighter, instead of the american way, jumping directly from 3rd generation into the radical revolutionary f-22. this guy was a professor of the chinese defense academy, an ex-sailor, probably also does analysis for the pla as well. so he is very credible

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My response to your first point:

I think first of all, the protypes are basically there to show. Why? Haven't you realised the security level at chengfei and censorship level is fairly poor when compared to their ordinary standards. It's like they are trying to give away the looks of j-20 without doing it officially. If we think in this logic then the dark green coating is basically there to make the plane look better. (If they really intend to keep the looks of j-20 as a secret then when they found out that someone already went and saw the j-20, their security level should have increased sharply, but that didn't happen. Also, why bring out j-20 in the middle of the day when it is most likely to be seen when their best option is like 3-4am? Finally if that photo is pure ps magic, wouldn't the witnesses of the actual j-20 stand up and say something here?)

My response to your second point:

I think I know who your talking about, but that guy is very modest and careful about what he says relating to things from China. I recall the host asking if China would follow the steps of Russia when it comes to 4th generation fighter, and his response was it'd be easier to follow the Russian design so following Russian's design is probable. i.e. he never said anything about China DEFINITELY following Russia's path. If u watched the lastest episodes from that series, he did say that j-20 would be much better than t-50 and f-35 in many aspects. Now that is a first. He normally don't make such statements unless he saw hard facts regarding j-20, and under the condition that the specs are just THAT GOOD (i.e. Much better than t-50 and f-35). In fact he got so excited and enthusiastic talking about it he said he wanted to talk about it so much that he would like an invite to talk about it when j-20 really comes out.