J-20... The New Generation Fighter III
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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IronsightSniper
Junior Member
Spend more time RnD'ing and less time procuring. Obama probably won't decrease defense spending as it's one of the biggest economic stimulus there is.
He already has lopped about 500 billion off, and come the end of the year there will be another 500 billion off, thats a lot of clams Iron, and beside that, he hasn't really done anything but kill businesses. My point is the global economy is in freefall, and it won't be getting better anytime soon, as the threat diminishes, the need to meet that threat is less critical, hence the apparent slowdown in J-20 developement and production, and really the J-20 needs to "ferment a little", as all designs do and let the data filter down to where it can be dissiminated into hardware.
Thanx Wolfie, that is my general understanding as well.
Equation
Lieutenant General
There's gonna be a lot of squabling among the brass in the Pentagon for money and big projects in the coming years. Again the US Army and Marines will always get the short end of the stick, while the Air Force and Navy gets all the money for big important toys.
Actually the Army and the Marines have done rather well lately, the Iraq and Ahghanistan shows have been an Army/Marine show, and not much about Air Power or Naval ops other than Airstrikes and Airlift. While you and I normally agree, with the F-35b and V-22, and lots and lots of Helo's and Strikers, plus M-4s and scopes and night vision add infiniteum, the Army and Marines have dones OK, not to mention hummers. Basically the Army and Marines were begging to go back and finish the job that Pres Bush 41 started in Iraq, Pres Bush 43 wanted to clear the family name and said go get em. While I disagreed with the premise, I fully support Pres Bush, and the US military, when BHO cleared out of Irag and rushed back into Afghanistan, I knew we were on the Soviet path to poverty, ie those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, and would get our own dose of reality, it has been even more miserable that I had imagined. Sorry mods for the off topic rant, feel free to delete or move any or all, I will try to contain my frustration with this present regime, and hope for a brighter morning in November. Any way, while we are spending lots of money on the F-35, we "ditched a far superior aircraft, to play footsie with our partners, who are still depending on us for a JSF, I hope they are not dissapointed, shoot, I hope I'm not dissapointed any more than I already am! I really think the US decision to cancel F-22 production has taken some of the "desire" for a fifth gen out of our neighbors, and they have ditched a few fifth gen concepts and use the term L/O instead of stealth, not to worried about supercruise, and compromised on super manueverability. The J-20 is still on track to be an amazing aircraft, I'm not quite as certain on the T-50, and the F-35 will likely be good enough for govt work? Hope I'm right? But I would feel much better if the F-22 were still in production, but then I am the Air Force Brat!
IronsightSniper
Junior Member
He hasn't "lopped" $500b off, he's lopped $500b off over time. In fact, in Obama's proposed 2013 budget, Defense spending overall is still slated to be over $700b. I'd hate to derail this thread, but the claim that Obama kills businesses is a stupid claim to make for several reasons but I regress. As for the J-20, and indeed the T-50 as well, unless they decide to export those planes to nations that are not exactly pro-American (North Korea, Iran), then you can argue that we have a problem. But as of now, we're just Soviet Union'ing up it and overprocuring for battles that may never come.
Agreed, if anything defense spending in US should be cut back, 4% of GDP in a peace time is way than necessary. Also there is a huge amount of waste in the defense industry, I have a friend who works with DOD and defense contractors, some of the story he tells me make the worst Chinese politician look like Mother Teresa.
Nah, I doubt many politicians look like Mother Teresa, she was cute and loved babies, quite unlike those who favor abortion for population control. So lets just stay on topic, my point is that approx 80 million Americans are unemployed due to many of our present regimes policies, that has placed the US in a financially precarious condition that we will not be able to "borrow" our way out of, and yes it is affecting the Chinese economy since we are most likely the largest consumer of their export products. That will affect the J-20 and its developement, which seems to have lost some of the ardor it previously held, I believe in large part, the cancelation of the Raptor has taken some of the "rush" off of getting the J-20 in the air and into LRIP. Much of those resources are likely now being channeled into the ex Varyag, and her sea trials, which is seen as a much higher priority IMHO at present. As a result the J-20 while still a priority seems to be on a "back burner", while the Varyag for obvious reasons is a much higher priority. What "peace time" are you referencing, it seems we are quite up to our keesters in "fun"?
I highly doubt that China is cannibalizing one project to fund another, they are not lacking money due to the global economy, if anything global economy slowing down will mean more domestic spending to pick up the slack, and when you invest in military R&D it benefits more than just military, countless civilian laboratories, University, research facilities will receive contracts. As I have said before China's military spending on GDP is less than 2% vs 4% for US, so more spending for China on military will actually help the economy rather than hurts it.
Also, there is one concept that you still hold which is false, you still think that money is a finite resources, that there is only limited amount, that would be true if the money is based on natural resources such as silver or gold, however as of right now, all money in all of world's government are Fiat money, which means the value of one type of money is only depending on the value of another, and all government in theory can print infinite amount of money to do whatever they want, such as stimulate the economy, induce inflation etc... Which is actually exactly what China and US are doing right now, while all nation trying to play games that benefit themselves, but in the end it is the normal people like you and me suffers, but that is another story. All I want you to know is money today is not the money in the old days anymore, so don't use the same standard to judge the past to the present.
As we are seeing less activity for J-20, I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with lack of money, or rather, they are in the stage of testing that is more have to do with system integration rather than aerodynamic testing like we have seem for the past year.
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