J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Status
Not open for further replies.

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
It has been noted that the canards appear to "slipstream", or align with the relative wind at high angles of attack, that is correct. This is illustrated by a steep turn of 60 degrees or so, as the aircraft attains a 60 degree bank it tends to want to bank steeper or "overbank", the very simple solution is to apply opposite aileron. So as you are in a 60 degree bank to the left, you are actually holding a small amount of right aileron. Now back in ancient history, its quite amazing to realize than 1903 was less than 110 years ago, engineers fixed these poor flying characteristics brilliantly, wingtips were "washed out" or twisted down in relation to the wing root, so that the ailerons would remain affective in and through the stall, also as the aileron was deflected downward for a left bank a lip would protrude into the slipstream on top of the wing to create a very slight drag to counter "adverse aileron yaw". On the light Cessna high wing singles a cusp was added to the leading edge of the wing to increase lift, at low speeds by increasing camber, making the aircraft far more docile and safe for the average Joe. As we can see with the J-20 the program seems to be progressing very well, and the designers/builders have incorporated an existing body of knowledge into a beautifull " thanks paintgun and the other photogs", apparently sweet flying, "those aileron rolls look very slick", well integrated aircraft. That all of our 4th, 4.5, and 5th gen aircraft are so simular seems to be obvious. To attain the LO and Hi Performance of the mature ATF has taken us 25+ years, it my sense looking at J-20 and her current competitors, that the LO component has been scaled back a bit to JSF standards as the bar to measure up to and with enough airplanes thats probably a good bet. I believe the J-20 is flying a fairly benign test profile, but it has definately become more aggressive lately so time will tell. As paint gun and others have illustrated for the rest of us, it looks like it will deliver the goods, my Dad always quoted the old engineers adage, if it looks good, it will fly good! Gentlemen I think we have a horse race.LOL
 
Last edited:

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
:confused:This is a fantastic question guys that someone who is aerodynamicaly savvy should tackle, Scratch you might see if Jeff could jump in as he is a "real engineer". Scratch this is why I was wondering out loud about the planform of the sino jet as the Mig 1.42/1.44 are so configured, but the Russians seem to have abandoned this approach and gone with the F22sky? Any way the all flying stabilator on a conventional main wing forward package is actually quite straightforward, throw a canard on the front and I get a "little confused". They haven't changed the laws of aerodynamics, but they have learned to "cheate a little bit" in a good way.

The PAKFA is different to the MiG-1.44 due to new solutions applied, the first was the Levcon, which allows to have the canard`s vortex and control function, without any downwash thus an increase in AoA handling without increased drag at cruise flight.

You can see the levcon deflected as canards would do in many T-50 pictures.

the second solution was multiaxis thrust vectoring which allows a reduction in tail area for lateral control.


MiG-1.44 was a very advanced jet but had limited LO shaping, it had many right corners.

However the vertical tails were positioned on a spanwise mid wing position, it had trailing edge flap extensions and hinged ventral fins for high AoA lateral control.

As such T-50 achieved a much smaller tail and a flatter profile.

J-20 took similar solutions on vertical tail position to the MiG-1.44.
 
Last edited:

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Thanks Mig 29, by the way the 29 was my favorite soviet bloc fighter, I really liked it better than the F-15, but i probably wouldn't have admited it. If I had to fight something, I would pick a raptor, but I love Pak Fa. The kid who used to fly the Raptor Demo was always catching some grief on Airshow Buzz, because he didn't do all the crazy things the Russian guys do, but he finally said, "Look I'm not going to depart the aircraft to entertain you, I'd be busted," Those guys are real showman, anyway there is at least one 29 and I think two in Quincy Il, I actually went out on the flight line and checked it up and down, it wasn't airworthy then as they didn't have the fuel controllers, but it flew last Dec 10,2010. The were called Red Air, now the name is changed to Air Usa, they provide dissimullar combat training for us mill and others. The J-20 really doesn't seem as stealthy or as polished as Pak Fa, but is an improvement on 1.44 I will check out the Levcon as I am unfamiliar with that term. Well guys, the man has spoken. Thanks Mig.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Ah yes the Leading Edge Vortex Controller, vedy interesting, in my best secret agent voice, designed to sacrifice some stealth for manueverability, yes I do believe that is the case, so says the wiki? There ya go Scratch, somebody give us some basic tutelage on the Levcon, sounds kind of like you had been exposed to that somewhere Scratch.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Sorry Lion, I don't mean to come off that way, tell me why I'm wrong, I really like the J-20, I think its a gorgeous airplane and I applaud the Chinese for building it. As I noted, the aileron rolls are very smooth. Points to the fact that we should still be building the F-22, but the J-20 is a relatively new platform, not nearly enough time to fine tune those stealthy characteristics, while we don't know exactly what the designers were aiming for, it seems that J-20 is designed for more fuel/weapons for a longer range while still in a stealthy platform, that can fight if necessary.
 
Last edited:

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
No Chief, just had golly's quiz open too. Feel free to edit, I am dyin laughing the J-20 does harken back to to the term airship, but then I'm bigger than I want to be as well. To much fried chicken and biscuits?
 

Quickie

Colonel
......the J-20 is a relatively new platform, not nearly enough time to fine tune those stealthy characteristics, while we don't know exactly what the designers were aiming for, it seems that J-20 is designed for more fuel/weapons for a longer range while still in a stealthy platform, that can fight if necessary.

It's clear the J-20 designers were aiming for maneuovrebility when they decide on using canard delta design. If they were not aiming for maneuoverbility, the first thing to go would be the canards since it's more a liability than advantageous in long range strike platform.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top