J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

siegecrossbow said:

Maybe the urgency wasn’t as great before the Pelosi visit? Always better to wait until the proper fifth gen engine is ready. All bets are off now though. Reaching high quantity is a must.

Click to expand...

Could also be done to the work to expand production capacity. You can build a new factory without disrupting existing production lines, but training up all the new workers will take time and effort from the existing production staff, since there is only so much you can learn from reading a manual and there is no substitute to on-the-job training with an experience and skilled worker. But that skilled worker is going to be less productive when he/she is teaching a bunch of newbies compared to when just building the plane themselves. I would not be surprised if there were peaks and troughs in production over the years.

I think the PLAAF was content with lower initial deliveries if it meant they can expect far higher production rates down the line. This is especially appealing since they know the J20A is not the final form model, so it’s better to get a little less J20A upfront if it means they will have more J20Bs and J20Cs ultimately (assuming total production numbers are somewhat capped). They were probably originally planning and gearing everything around the expected readiness of the final form J20C with WS15s and all avionics and radar advancements made in the years in between such that peak production rates come only just as the J20C is cleared for mass production.

The mixing of J20s and J16s in the same units also seems like they were more concerned with training up the maximum number of pilots for J20s rather than attaining full combat proficiency on the delivered J20s as soon as possible since the PLA prefers to have people waiting on kit to be made rather than have kit sitting around waiting for people to be trained up to use them.

That would have been the plan 10 years ago, but with current geopolitical tensions, I think all that has gone out the window and everything is about war prep now, so planned capped total production numbers are probably scrapped and it’s about pumping out as many units as quickly as possible. More J20As and J20Bs made now doesn’t mean fewer J20Cs in the future.

drowingfish said:

it seems odd that after this many years production is capped at 20/batch. unless that was the upper limit of a particular factory. perhaps then with new factory coming online this number would increase to 30-40 per batch, or twice as many batches within a given time frame.

Click to expand...

Why? This cap is only related to one batch but the difference is IMO that CAC produced one patch within 20 years, later in one year and now they eventually produce 2 or even 3 per year.

plawolf said:

The mixing of J20s and J16s in the same units also seems like they were more concerned with training up the maximum number of pilots for J20s rather than attaining full combat proficiency on the delivered J20s as soon as possible since the PLA prefers to have people waiting on kit to be made rather than have kit sitting around waiting for people to be trained up to use them.

Click to expand...

These two fighters will work together for years to come. Putting the two types in the same unit certainly can bring better cohesion when in dire situations. Maybe it's not only to focus on J-20 but to focus on the capabilities of both types.

The segment on the Wang Hai brigade with English subtitles:

drowingfish said:

it seems odd that after this many years production is capped at 20/batch. unless that was the upper limit of a particular factory. perhaps then with new factory coming online this number would increase to 30-40 per batch, or twice as many batches within a given time frame.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind, if they are produced in a batch where each batch is the same number, it doesn't necessarily mean it takes the same time to build a batch as production progresses.

For example, it could be that in the past it would take one year to build a batch of X airframes, but now it takes 4 months to build a batch of X airframes as more production capacity comes online.

Or alternatively, they could simultaneously build multiple batches at once, whereas before they could only build one at a time.

O alternatively, batch size has/will increase in size.

Either way, the annual output of aircraft obviously has increased and will continue to increase. How we square that with batch production is interesting, but not as important.

Strangelove said:

View attachment 105257View attachment 105254View attachment 105255View attachment 105258View attachment 105259View attachment 105260

Click to expand...

Most interesting part of the video is the pilot selection process for the Wanghai Brigade. They essentially take the best and brightest from other theater commands, put them through very rigorous testing, and select the cream of the top.

siegecrossbow said:

Most interesting part of the video is the pilot selection process for the Wanghai Brigade. They essentially take the best and brightest from other theater commands, put them through very rigorous testing, and select the cream of the top.

Click to expand...

Frankly that's a bit odd, because while I can understand the importance of having some more elite and experienced units, concentrating high end competence like that isn't really that wise at a military level.

What you really want to do is to distribute your highly competent individuals among different units, and send them periodically to a high yield intensive training course so they can return to their unit and teach the fruits of learning to their peers.

I suspect part of the video's description of the brigade is to partly ham it up a bit to make it seem "special" because for the general public the idea of a more "elite" brigade seems more appealing.

Blitzo said:

Frankly that's a bit odd, because while I can understand the importance of having some more elite and experienced units, concentrating high end competence like that isn't really that wise at a military level.

What you really want to do is to distribute your highly competent individuals among different units, and send them periodically to a high yield intensive training course so they can return to their unit and teach the fruits of learning to their peers.

I suspect part of the video's description of the brigade is to partly ham it up a bit to make it seem "special" because for the general public the idea of a more "elite" brigade seems more appealing.

Click to expand...

From this report, when the 8th started their conversion to J-20, the 9th transferred one of their Gold Dart winning pilots, vice commander of their own brigade, 2 teams of ground crew to the 8th.

Basically, it has been the same story everywhere, like the 98th transferred several experienced pilots to the 99th for the J-16 conversion.

drowingfish said:

it seems odd that after this many years production is capped at 20/batch. unless that was the upper limit of a particular factory. perhaps then with new factory coming online this number would increase to 30-40 per batch, or twice as many batches within a given time frame.

Click to expand...

A batch of 20 would correspond to the size of a Dadui?

And wouldn't you want to get a batch out as soon as possible?

So what matters is how many batches you can produce per year.

HeroOftheFerelden said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

From this report, when the 8th started their conversion to J-20, the 9th transferred one of their Gold Dart winning pilots, vice commander of their own brigade, 2 teams of ground crew to the 8th.

Basically, it has been the same story everywhere, like the 98th transferred several experienced pilots to the 99th for the J-16 conversion.

Click to expand...

Seems like a good way for different brigades to get new blood and learn from each other.

Another fairly recent trend is that PLAAF pilots and sometimes entire brigades are stationed in different airbase for months at a time. One major example is Chongqing, which has spent more time in ETC than WTC last year!