J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
But it was the first time I have heard of a third factory and I think the rumor is semi valid based on satellite picture so far.

Some major construction work is taking shape on the southern side of current 2nd factory, the green construction shed is very similar with the google earth picture taken in April, 2021.

The prospect will get clearer when GE updates their high-res picture later.
1668293347338.png
1668293617209.png

unprecedented even if they produce 70 plus ..

China's industrial capacity finally unleased. this decade is really interesting to follow. we will see the same trend in all top military hardware..
Based on the rumor I heard, the production rate is almost definitely higher than 70 this year, probably somewhere around 80.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member

I would add one more thing, that the new factory building at the top right hand side only really completed structural construction about mid 2022, see image below from March 2022 when it was still having some structural work done:

1668294416310.png


And this is what that looked like in December 2017, when early work began:
1668294535784.png




... all of this is to say that the factory building was only structurally complete about mid this year, and likely would need some time to be outfitted and spool up.

Starting active production work at this second factory building in 2023 sounds quite reasonable to me -- and it is indeed a fair bit of extra floor space that they've added. If it will be mostly committed to J-20s, and if they are indeed winding down J-10C production at CAC and shifting those slots to J-20s... and if we assume this year's production estimate (anywhere from 65-75?) has been done without the new factory active, then an increase of 50% from the current rate, is definitely within logical reason.... even if it seems like an astronomical suggestion if it was made from even earlier this year
 

Maikeru

Major
Registered Member
For reference F35 production will likely peak at 156 per year:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Also add whatever Boeing produces - maybe 1 to 2 dozen F15EX or F18E/F per annum?

CAC and SAC between them ought to be able to exceed US production rates in the near future.

As for the new capacity at CAC, not guaranteed this is all for J20 production, maybe also for FH97/A or other loyal wingman UCAV production?
 

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
... all of this is to say that the factory building was only structurally complete about mid this year, and likely would need some time to be outfitted and spool up.

Starting active production work at this second factory building in 2023 sounds quite reasonable to me -- and it is indeed a fair bit of extra floor space that they've added. If it will be mostly committed to J-20s, and if they are indeed winding down J-10C production at CAC and shifting those slots to J-20s... and if we assume this year's production estimate (anywhere from 65-75?) has been done without the new factory active, then an increase of 50% from the current rate, is definitely within logical reason.... even if it seems like an astronomical suggestion if it was made from even earlier this year
It was my first thought when I heard "80 per year" rumor earlier this year. My estimation was around 30-40 back then given the new factory was finished in April but seeing trucking moving around from satellite, I would say the factory has entered initial phase of production because no more construction trucks were seen by then. But I am told that the new factory still doubles the production as workers got lockdown in Chengdu with nowhere to go but work in factory as the so-called "close-loop" production.

Then I am told that there is a third factory/assembly factory coming up as well, scheduled to enter production by the end of next year.
As the satellite picture taken in July shows early sign of construction on the southern side of current 2nd factory, trees chopped down, green shed put on. Also I have to mention that the assembly factory went from "green shed" to completion in an exact one-year timescale, it could be because only assembly tools and shelters are needed for production as "pulse line."
16682955947751.jpg

I must confess it is a wild rumor and considered as wet dream to me back then but multiple sources are suggesting even more wild speculation. Because what they are suggesting is at least 48 J-20s per factory and it will be close to 150 J-20s starting from 2024.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
It was my first thought when I heard "80 per year" rumor earlier this year. My estimation was around 30-40 back then given the new factory was finished in April but seeing trucking moving around from satellite, I would say the factory has entered initial phase of production because no more construction trucks were seen by then. But I am told that the new factory still doubles the production as workers got lockdown in Chengdu with nowhere to go but work in factory as the so-called "close-loop" production.

I strongly doubt that the newly built factory has actually started production this year in any meaningful way.

They only structurally finished the new factory building about mid 2022, but for something like this it would probably take another good six months to actually fit it out with the necessary tooling, troubleshoot and get the relevant folks on site and familiar.


Personally I think the increase in production we've seen this year so far compared to past years, maybe due to additional lines being added at the existing factory, or additional lines being converted from J-10 lines.
 

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
I strongly doubt that the newly built factory has actually started production this year in any meaningful way.

They only structurally finished the new factory building about mid 2022, but for something like this it would probably take another good six months to actually fit it out with the necessary tooling, troubleshoot and get the relevant folks on site and familiar.


Personally I think the increase in production we've seen this year so far compared to past years, maybe due to additional lines being added at the existing factory, or additional lines being converted from J-10 lines.
Based on what I have heard from local source, there is still standing order of J-10S not finished and no confirmation on whether J-10C has been moved to Guizhou.

I find it hard to find a reason to explain the exponential growth in production rate seen in Zhuhai and I have been quite conservative on it tbh.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
那可不,一年一百多产量呢,可不叫大规模列装么(不是今年达到哈)
 

Derpy

Junior Member
Registered Member
It was my first thought when I heard "80 per year" rumor earlier this year. My estimation was around 30-40 back then given the new factory was finished in April but seeing trucking moving around from satellite, I would say the factory has entered initial phase of production because no more construction trucks were seen by then. But I am told that the new factory still doubles the production as workers got lockdown in Chengdu with nowhere to go but work in factory as the so-called "close-loop" production.

Then I am told that there is a third factory/assembly factory coming up as well, scheduled to enter production by the end of next year.
As the satellite picture taken in July shows early sign of construction on the southern side of current 2nd factory, trees chopped down, green shed put on. Also I have to mention that the assembly factory went from "green shed" to completion in an exact one-year timescale, it could be because only assembly tools and shelters are needed for production as "pulse line."
View attachment 101727

I must confess it is a wild rumor and considered as wet dream to me back then but multiple sources are suggesting even more wild speculation. Because what they are suggesting is at least 48 J-20s per factory and it will be close to 150 J-20s starting from 2024.
If we extrapolate those numbers (and assume 150 is sustained) the total inventory at the Start of each year would be

2023 220 (exact current numbers makes little difference with such high production)
2024 320
2025 480
2026 630
2027 780
2030 1230
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
If we extrapolate those numbers (and assume 150 is sustained) the total inventory at the Start of each year would be

2023 220 (exact current numbers makes little difference with such high production)
2024 320
2025 480
2026 630
2027 780
2030 1230

I wouldn't make such far scale predictions with specific numbers just yet.

Too many unknowns including just how true our suspicions are, as well as whether all of the new factory space being built will be fully allocated to J-20 or split among other projects (high end UAVs, UCAVs for one).





Based on what I have heard from local source, there is still standing order of J-10S not finished and no confirmation on whether J-10C has been moved to Guizhou.

I find it hard to find a reason to explain the exponential growth in production rate seen in Zhuhai and I have been quite conservative on it tbh.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So, I have a working theory.

It's underpinned by three premises.

First premise, is that the J-20 production we've been seeing over the last few years has been mostly a result of this particular factory building, let's call it site "A":
1668298352174.png


That building was only structurally completed in like late 2015.

This is what it looked like in mid 2014:
1668298149500.png

And it looks to me like it was properly finished in late 2015 and settled in about early 2016 -- which is when serial J-20 production began (pic below from Feb 2016)
1668298221028.png



The second premise, is that J-10 production has fully been carried out at "older buildings" (i.e.: ones that existed in prior years).
I say this, because obviously CAC has had lots of factory space for J-10s prior to the new factory building was complete, and they were building serial J-10s since the mid 2000s continuously through various variants.



The third premise, is that J-10 production has been getting partially converted from J-10 to J-20 -- they are certainly still building J-10s, but perhaps of the number of J-10 lines they have running, over the last year one or more of those lines have been converted to J-20s, as they are in the process of shifting J-10 production to Guizhou.


===

So, to put it altogether, here is an overall image:
1668298925535.png

So taking it altogether, between 2016 to now, my working theory is:
- the factory building site A, finished in early 2016 has been intended for only J-20 production from the start, and has been steadily increasing J-20 production over the years from 2016 (note, they would've had to slowly add additional lines as they are essentially expanding production of an aircraft type that is much more complex than anything they've done before), and I think it's only over the last year or so that they may have gotten fully running at 100% capacity.
- over the last year, in other older factory buildings used for J-10 production, some of their J-10 production has been converted to J-20 production, which partially accounts for why J-20 production over this year seems to be higher than previous years.
- factory building site B (which was structurally complete mid this year) I personally suspect has yet to properly kick in with J-20 production but they might build some J-20 airframes in the current last quarter of the year (due to time needed to properly tool up), however site B may also contribute some construction
- factory building site ?C (which is yet to be confirmed but looks like foundation work is being done on), may see structural completion by mid to late 2023, and after that time between mid 2023 to mid 2024 may start production as well.


IMO the biggest questions we face are:
- how much of site A and B will be used for J-20 production (most of us reasonably expect their full capacity will be used for J-20s)
- will site C definitely emerge and if it does, what will it be used for?
- how soon will J-10 production at CAC be shifted to Guizhou (if it will at all), and how much of that will be converted to J-20 production (if at all)



But IMO, either way we have lots of evidence to suggest that the overall factory has seen significant expansion and is likely to see further expansion in the future.
A greater rate of J-20 production and high end UAV/UCAV production capacity is likely to be the fruits of this work, but going into the late 2020s and early 2030s, I suspect much of this expanded production space will benefit an earlier ramp up of 6th gen fighter production as well relative to how long it took for J-20 production to scale up.


Edit: the other thing which can't be ignored, is what I will dub as site D

That building is massive as well, and was only completed in mid 2021, however given its location I am not fully sure if it should be considered as factory space for actual final assembly of completed airframes given the distance it takes to the primary airfield and the rather complex road and navigation hazards on the way to the airfield.
In fact I'm not even sure if it's on the same property as the overall factory.
If it is part of CAC, it could be for producing subcomponents at scale before transport to the final factories?

1668299476303.png
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top