J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII
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An F-15EX with 22 air-to-air missiles is still dead meat when faced with an opposing stealth fighter.
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Also, the latest AMRAAM is $1.8 Million, which is almost the same cost as Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie ($2 Million when mass produced)
When these drones carry AMRAAMs or micro-missiles, it makes absolutely no sense to use large, expensive manned fighters as missile launch platforms.
If we follow your logic on a trend toward missile spam, you want to send up very large numbers of drones, which then do the missile spamming.
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I agree that all aircraft have to be able to control drones.
BUT IF future air combat does turn into a battle of hundreds of drones/missiles AND rear-area AWACs becomes too vulnerable, THEN a survivable Command J-20 in the rear would be a huge advantage.
I did talk to the EE guy and he has a very good argument for a command / aew&c J-20. Guess what it is? Multi-static radar. Networked AESA from multiple J-20s can replicate or supersede a AEW&C radar. But this is all very future capability and if the jury is out as to whether the J-20 AESA can LPI, it'll take a while for the Chinese to establish the infrastructure needed for networked multi-static radar.
Like I've said before, the first twin-seater J-20 will be a J-11 escort.
As for AndrewS, there are a variety of future air combat paradigms being developed. There's the laser paradigm, where missiles end up being blinded or shot down. There's the drone paradigm, where fighters are replaced by drones and drone controllers. There's the micromissile paradigm, where a multitude of small KK missiles shoot down enemy missiles and dogfight.
The micromissile paradigm is being actively developed, already the PL-10 claims to be able to be able to shoot down Patriot missiles. The micromissile paradigm is likely to render stealth obsolete because what's the use of stealth when the enemy fighter can shoot down your BVR missiles and then supercruise or afterburner into dogfight range and HOBS you to death?
The micromissile paradigm is most likely to win out in the near term. On CDF (and presumably SDF) we have shots of J-20s carrying external missile rails (4-6). This suggests that you'll end up with J-20s immune to enemy fire due to Chinese micromissiles shooting down incoming missiles.
Like I've said before, the first twin-seater J-20 will be a J-11 escort.
As for AndrewS, there are a variety of future air combat paradigms being developed. There's the laser paradigm, where missiles end up being blinded or shot down. There's the drone paradigm, where fighters are replaced by drones and drone controllers. There's the micromissile paradigm, where a multitude of small KK missiles shoot down enemy missiles and dogfight.
The micromissile paradigm is being actively developed, already the PL-10 claims to be able to be able to shoot down Patriot missiles. The micromissile paradigm is likely to render stealth obsolete because what's the use of stealth when the enemy fighter can shoot down your BVR missiles and then supercruise or afterburner into dogfight range and HOBS you to death?
The micromissile paradigm is most likely to win out in the near term. On CDF (and presumably SDF) we have shots of J-20s carrying external missile rails (4-6). This suggests that you'll end up with J-20s immune to enemy fire due to Chinese micromissiles shooting down incoming missiles.
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Point is that it's easier to develop a UAV stealth bomber than it is to develop a UAV stealth fighter. UAV strike planes are already in service, and the Chinese CH-4 already sees sales. Tab on stealth, a weapons bay, and blammo, UAV stealth bomber. No UCAV fighters are in service, however.
We know the Lijian has already had its maiden flight. The Anjian has not had its maiden flight. If it happens this year, good, but it'll take a lot of effort to get it to have AI logics for air supremacy warfare.
We know the Lijian has already had its maiden flight. The Anjian has not had its maiden flight. If it happens this year, good, but it'll take a lot of effort to get it to have AI logics for air supremacy warfare.
by78
General
Good, you've made your point, so have others. Please don't turn this into yet another endless obsessive-compulsion. Open up a new thread if you must, and be considerate of the wider community here.
The micromissile, laser and drone paradigms that you are describing are not mutually exclusive.
The drone wingman concept looks pretty solid now, with present day air-to-air missiles.
When you combine that with micromissiles or lasers, you still end up with a battle of attrition.
The side with the larger number of drones, micromissiles or lasers wins.
So you would still need a larger stealthy, survivable manned platform (like the J-20) to direct large numbers of drones/missiles.
I don't see any reason for a J-20 carrying non-stealthy external missile rails as standard.
You might as well have the cheaper J-11s being the micromissile carriers.
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Brumby
Major
Kindly explain whether the J-20 has stealthy datalinks somehow is a null hypothesis conversation. If you insist it has, what evidence do you have in support of your "hypothesis"?
There are three conceivable possibilities:
1)It has no data link
2)It has some form of datalink; and
3)It has stealthy datalink.
Firstly, networked J-20 cannot replace AEW&C platform - not in a practical manner. It is an issue of persistence and numbers required Ir is the same conversation of F-35 acting as mini AWACs to leverage its net centric sensor fusion capabilities. It is the same hurdle - persistence. The US approach in my view is towards developing a penetrative stealthy HALE ISR platform IMO the RQ-180 is a likely candidate.
As I have said, you don't need a two seater for it. Provision of enhanced sensor information for situational awareness is best shared via datalink. The F-22/F-15 combo conversation has predominantly been about the latter being a missile truck rather than as an escort. Working out the technology between 5th and 4th gen com link is not simple even though discussions here seem to suggest it is a matter of waving some magical wand.
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