J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[TK3600]

I watched the video. Very amusing chief engineer is well aware of online community. He know phrases like "wall climbers". He also knows general internet opinions like "where is thrust vectors?" "J-20 worse rear-aspect stealth"

Other interesting comments from chief:

"Only US and China has 'omnidirection data link' "

"Information, electronic warfare is the key of current battle. But as more tactics develop, human pilot cannot keep up with numbers of techniques needed to learn. There gotta be simplifications. That is why AI is the next key. AI can manage that for the pilot"

one more:

"I don't think B-21 can match up to us."

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I watched the video. Very amusing chief engineer is well aware of online community. He know phrases like "wall climbers". He also knows general internet opinions like "where is thrust vectors?" "J-20 worse rear-aspect stealth"

Other interesting comments from chief:

"Only US and China has 'omnidirection data link' "

"Information, electronic warfare is the key of current battle. But as more tactics develop, human pilot cannot keep up with numbers of techniques needed to learn. There gotta be simplifications. That is why AI is the next key. AI can manage that for the pilot"

Indeed.

Some deducing on Yang Wei's words on the J-20 (or related to) by @horobeyo:

- It can be seen that even among the fighter jets of the same generation, even if the power and maneuverability are the same, the differences in airborne radar and weapons can completely determine the outcome. It has been 50 years since the first development of 3.5th-gen fighters. The latest 3.5th-gens is definitely capable of beating the earlier 3.5th-gens.

(Here, I think the "3.5th-gen" Yang Wei said is actually referring to the 4.5th-gen fighters that we typically associate of today, i.e. F-15EX, J-16, Su-35 etc)

- Even if thrust vectoring is equipped by the J-20, 2D-vectoring is more suitable than 3D-vectoring. The reason is being that the 3D-vectoring flight control is complex. The maneuverability gained in exchange for complexity and the less thrust loss caused by the circular nozzle is still essentially revolving around the "maneuvering is king" idea. Meanwhile, the 2D-vectoring rectangular nozzle's rearward stealth and smaller rear fuselage resistance (which brings longer range) meet the requirements of future air combat.

- "There are now thousands of F-35s built, and 3500 will eventually be equipped. When we initially said this, we thought it (the US) was bragging." "Now it seems that it can be achieved." If this statement is true, it shows that the decision-makers (in the higher levels of the PLA) once misjudged the number of F-35s to be eventually equipped. Hence, the answer as to why the WS-10 variant of the J-20 is already in mass production before the complete (full-body) J-20 (i.e. equipped with WS-15, etc etc) made its first flight - Mainly because of the upcoming China-US military struggle and the present evolving situation, which waits for no one.

one more:

"I don't think B-21 can match up to us."

From Yang Wei himself:
"This aircraft (B-21) is also said to be a digital engineering project. It is said that (the project advancement) is fast, but in fact, the first flight was delayed for three years. I think it cannot match up/be comparable with us/ours.”

Not sure what he meant by that, but @horobeyo believes that Yang Wei is talking about digital engineering - Which, honestly, is pretty surprising.

 

[gelgoog]

Roughly translated:
2. Thrust vectoring for the purpose of maneuverability is outdated in terms of thinking (Yang Wei revealed that the answer to "How did you know that the J-20 did not have a vector engine?" at the 2018 Zhuhai Exhibition was "a surprise at the air show" and "Mobility is king, this is not the battle that will be fought later.”)

TVC is not just good for maneuverability. With TVC you can do without large tail surfaces and thus further enhance stealth.

 

[bebops]

B21 is good but not a game changer. There are way too many things used to track this..

Yuan Wang ISR ships, hundreds of ISR satellites deployed to a specific area, KJ planes, ground radars and other detectors..
Simply too many things can be used to track B21 without going undetected.

My favorite are ISR satellites.. Nothing will go unobserved. You can spoof one satellite but you cannot spoof every single ISR objects over there.

 

[TK3600]

Indeed.

Some deducing on Yang Wei's words on the J-20 (or related to) by @horobeyo:

- It can be seen that even among the fighter jets of the same generation, even if the power and maneuverability are the same, the differences in airborne radar and weapons can completely determine the outcome. It has been 50 years since the first development of 3.5th-gen fighters. The latest 3.5th-gens is definitely capable of beating the earlier 3.5th-gens.

(Here, I think the "3.5th-gen" Yang Wei said is actually referring to the 4.5th-gen fighters that we typically associate of today, i.e. F-15EX, J-16, Su-35 etc)

- Even if thrust vectoring is equipped by the J-20, 2D-vectoring is more suitable than 3D-vectoring. The reason is being that the 3D-vectoring flight control is complex. The maneuverability gained in exchange for complexity and the less thrust loss caused by the circular nozzle is still essentially revolving around the "maneuvering is king" idea. Meanwhile, the 2D-vectoring rectangular nozzle's rearward stealth and smaller rear fuselage resistance (which brings longer range) meet the requirements of future air combat.

- "There are now thousands of F-35s built, and 3500 will eventually be equipped. When we initially said this, we thought it (the US) was bragging." "Now it seems that it can be achieved." If this statement is true, it shows that the decision-makers (in the higher levels of the PLA) once misjudged the number of F-35s to be eventually equipped. Hence, the answer as to why the WS-10 variant of the J-20 is already in mass production before the complete (full-body) J-20 (i.e. equipped with WS-15, etc etc) made its first flight - Mainly because of the upcoming China-US military struggle and the present evolving situation, which waits for no one.



From Yang Wei himself:
"This aircraft (B-21) is also said to be a digital engineering project. It is said that (the project advancement) is fast, but in fact, the first flight was delayed for three years. I think it cannot match up/be comparable with us/ours.”

Not sure what he meant by that, but @horobeyo believes that Yang Wei is talking about digital engineering - Which, honestly, is pretty surprising.

On thrust vectoring: Context is trade off. Looks like J-20 has no plan of equiping thrust vector anymore is my interpretation.

On B-21: Context is new American strategy of infiltration. He meant B-21 escorted by stealth fighters cannot infiltrate China no matter which direction.


Another key take away is he is very relaxed regarding the subjects he is talking about. He is well aware of internet interest on Chinese airforce. Nevertheless he is not worried about leaking secrets, because "What PLA guards tightly (electronic warfare tactics) and what military fans want to know are very different"

 

[Blitzo]

Seems like the bilibili video is broken, probably taken down I assume?

 

[tiancai8888]

Seems like the bilibili video is broken, probably taken down I assume?

Indeed, Anyone cached it ?

 

[latenlazy]

On thrust vectoring: Context is trade off. Looks like J-20 has no plan of equiping thrust vector anymore is my interpretation.

On B-21: Context is new American strategy of infiltration. He meant B-21 escorted by stealth fighters cannot infiltrate China no matter which direction.


Another key take away is he is very relaxed regarding the subjects he is talking about. He is well aware of internet interest on Chinese airforce. Nevertheless he is not worried about leaking secrets, because "What PLA guards tightly (electronic warfare tactics) and what military fans want to know are very different"

Actually sounds more like the J-20 is indeed going to 2D vectoring.

 

[TK3600]

Actually sounds more like the J-20 is indeed going to 2D vectoring.

He was rather dismissive of the manoeuvrability gains and talked about how useless it was, and how it has additional drawbacks. It was pretty clear to me he is against any kind of thrust vectoring.

Up to you if you want to believe me. I could have grabbed the time stamp but video is gone.

 

[latenlazy]

He was rather dismissive of the manoeuvrability gains and talked about how useless it was, and how it has additional drawbacks. It was pretty clear to me he is against any kind of thrust vectoring.

Up to you if you want to believe me. I could have grabbed the time stamp but video is gone.

I can only judge based on what’s shared here until I can watch the whole presentation myself.