J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
Maybe i missed that piece of news, but what credible source (interview with PLA or manufacturer personnel, promo materials, awards for specific tech given to specific people, etc) said or suggested that j20 or any Chinese fighter jet radar uses GaN SiCs, or any other GaN elements? And when was that?

If you want AVIC to come out and say it you are gonna wait for a very long time. We technically don’t even know the designation of the radar on J-20 vanilla yet.
 

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
If you want AVIC to come out and say it you are gonna wait for a very long time. We technically don’t even know the designation of the radar on J-20 vanilla yet.
CETC is already testing out GaN-on-Diamond..

These are the 3rd/4th generation semiconductor materials and currently using in 5.5G bases stations and wide range of other civilian industries like satellite and communication. these materials are essential for Radar as well this is why we get information about current radar tech. AVIC will never announce anything.
 

jospence

New Member
Registered Member
The first signs of how advanced Chinese avionics tech was, is the cockpit of the JF-17 B1. A cockpit with 3 Large full color LCD screens back in 2006 was even more advanced than that of the F-22. And that for an export fighter. From that moment on, no one should've doubted Chinese electronics and avionics.
The F-22 got quite unlucky from a technological standpoint and would have really benefited from being designed even 3 years later, excluding the fact that it wouldn't have been funded post Cold War. The Americans went all in on the pinnacle of 90s technology, the problem is that the 90s technology was quickly outclassed by computing developments of the late 90s and early 2000s which would have made upgrading the aircraft much easier. The Americans made some very poor design choices in general, particularly surrounding future upgrades. Designing the aircraft to just barely fit the Aim-120 was a massive error in retrospect, and has really hampered American missile development since. The Chinese in contrast made many smarter choices in regards to 5th generation design and massively benefitted from mature 21st century technologies. The J-20 is finally reaching its potential with the Alpha and Sierra models to a degree western 5th gen's couldn't even dream of.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Eh, it is not so incredible that various pieces of info get a more proper indication or proof than some big shrimps claiming it.

We had aesa radar for export fighter jets showcased by the manufacturer like a decade ago, We had GaN radar tech mentioned in promo materials for EW radars some years ago, we had 200 km range claim for pl-15 said by an catic employee, we had various pieces of EM catapult or submarine design mentioned by engineers that worked on them in CCTV segments and so on. Such info from sort of official sources does appear from time to time.

So it seemed legit for me to ask whether similar info has appeared in this case. If it hasn't, that of course doesn't mean it's not true.
 

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
Eh, it is not so incredible that various pieces of info get a more proper indication or proof than some big shrimps claiming it.

We had aesa radar for export fighter jets showcased by the manufacturer like a decade ago, We had GaN radar tech mentioned in promo materials for EW radars some years ago, we had 200 km range claim for pl-15 said by an catic employee, we had various pieces of EM catapult or submarine design mentioned by engineers that worked on them in CCTV segments and so on. Such info from sort of official sources does appear from time to time.

So it seemed legit for me to ask whether similar info has appeared in this case. If it hasn't, that of course doesn't mean it's not true.
Once more information about J-35AE’s radar is released we should have a better ability to infer as to which information is true.
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Eh, it is not so incredible that various pieces of info get a more proper indication or proof than some big shrimps claiming it.

We had aesa radar for export fighter jets showcased by the manufacturer like a decade ago, We had GaN radar tech mentioned in promo materials for EW radars some years ago, we had 200 km range claim for pl-15 said by an catic employee, we had various pieces of EM catapult or submarine design mentioned by engineers that worked on them in CCTV segments and so on. Such info from sort of official sources does appear from time to time.

So it seemed legit for me to ask whether similar info has appeared in this case. If it hasn't, that of course doesn't mean it's not true.

I posted the links here. Not sure if the original article link is still active but I have summary of the link in there. Casmita is a pretty legit news source on anything China semiconductor industry. You can see the GaN on diamond news after that.
 

mister unknown

New Member
Registered Member
Do we have any news regarding the status of GaO-on-diamond? I think that would be the next iteration after GaN-on-diamond right?
 

valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
Do we have any news regarding the status of GaO-on-diamond? I think that would be the next iteration after GaN-on-diamond right?
We've seen papers demonstrating viable usage of diamond, although these iirc have all been in pretty small use-cases and in laboratory conditions. I think there are paper links in the radar and semiconductor threads. There's no noise about even prototype radars using this.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
You know, it's almost alarming to see how the flagship Western fighter (The F-35) still flying with GaA radars and struggling to adopt even GaN-on-Si whereas Chinese stealth jets are flying en masse with GaN-SiCs and are probably gonna switch to Diamond substrates post-2030 too. This is more than a generation's gap and no matter how I look at it I cannot for the life of me understand how this even happened. Now, to be fair the actual backend processing and signal tech is still probably on par with the Chinese counterparts (or maybe not? I'm not entirely sure since obviously no one would ever know this and those who'd know will never say it), but that still doesn't erase the fact that they're behind in such a key area and struggling to advance. Does anyone know how this happened? I mean we hear the major stories for the Chinese aviation industry about how they went from struggling with the WS-10s in the 2000s to now mass-producing WS-15s and WS-19s but we've never (at least to my knowledge) heard about how they advanced so much in these less "fancy" but arguably just as important areas of technology especially when it comes to flagship fighters like the J-20 (I still remember when the prototype was first shown in 2011 I believe, and the Western media hacks calling it a "3rd gen" aircraft with a fancy body or some even going as far as saying that it couldn't even fly).
China invested deeply in the whole supply chain for two plus decades while the US invested narrowly only in IP development. The latter gets you some R&D but not effective and efficient production at scale. You will have trouble getting en masse adoption of anything without industrial scale.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Eh, it is not so incredible that various pieces of info get a more proper indication or proof than some big shrimps claiming it.

We had aesa radar for export fighter jets showcased by the manufacturer like a decade ago, We had GaN radar tech mentioned in promo materials for EW radars some years ago, we had 200 km range claim for pl-15 said by an catic employee, we had various pieces of EM catapult or submarine design mentioned by engineers that worked on them in CCTV segments and so on. Such info from sort of official sources does appear from time to time.

So it seemed legit for me to ask whether similar info has appeared in this case. If it hasn't, that of course doesn't mean it's not true.

Those things you're talking about tend to get fed to us quite some years after we've had credible rumours for years during early years of implementation though.

For equivalent levels of exposure you'll probably need to wait some 3-4 years, and even then we might not get official details (e.g.: even for fighter AESAs offered for export in the past they've never specified if they are GaA or GaN etc, and it was more the exception in the past that a few select export radars had their substrates directly mentioned on a placard).


So it's fair to ask sure, but I also think calibrating what is reasonable expectations for a given time frame should be kept in mind.
 
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