J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[Nx4eu]

Might be stupid to debate these things with so much seriousness and conviction but any betting man would bet that China would bring ACE engines into service well before Russia does at least as far as official declaration goes. Russia is running on fumes. It has barely a fraction of the funding Chinese organisations have, barely the same level and extent of tools and resources or human talent. Russia's lost a lot of human talent just over the last few years.

If we chart out the trajectory of these programs, the Russian engines are going the way of the Russian space program and the Russian airforce and navy. Russia is regressing in basically every measurable way. It's so fucking hard to deny that even the most unhinged Russian stronkist will feel himself a fool to continue promoting that Russia is some hub of strength and tech development.

The engine race is just between the US and China. China and Russia may be overall pretty equal in aeroengines when it comes to low bypass and ACE/VCE (and China's behind Russia in high bypass) but China's running at a pace that Russia does not match. If you were to assume Russians are just smarter to compensate, well evidence would suggest no for one but even if they are, and somehow also culturally more suited to develop and master these engines, they do not have the resources these days.

I never claimed that Russia is better than China and will be better than China due to higher intelligence, I also did not claim China will never surpass Russia. I do also think all Russian weapons programs that will require high capital investments will struggle for the foreseeable future. What I am saying is that talking about whose engine technology is superior based on open source information is a fools errand, and isn't worth arguing about at all. Let us just be joyous about the potential service entry of the WS-15. No need for ridiculous chest beating comparisons about how China is beating all the legacy engine manufacturers. I've simply grown tired of all the rhetoric.

 

[manatee988]

i think this is why they introduced WS-10C2. a brand new iteration with lots of changes. but anyways WS-15 entered in full scale production. so WS-10 series should stick with 4th gen fighters and CCAs.

I see this WS-15 in full production quote so many times yet none of the new airframes are using this engine. I think everyone should take Blitzos advice because anything else looks like cope.

I have a complementary suggestion.

Can everyone just pretend WS-15 doesn't exist until they've demonstrated two or three years of continuous uninterrupted production?

 

[ougoah]

I never claimed that Russia is better than China and will be better than China due to higher intelligence, I also did not claim China will never surpass Russia. I do also think all Russian weapons programs that will require high capital investments will struggle for the foreseeable future. What I am saying is that talking about whose engine technology is superior based on open source information is a fools errand, and isn't worth arguing about at all. Let us just be joyous about the potential service entry of the WS-15. No need for ridiculous chest beating comparisons about how China is beating all the legacy engine manufacturers. I've simply grown tired of all the rhetoric.

I dont think anyone was chest beating. It was literally claimed that China is behind Russia on high bypass turbofans despite it being quite likely that China is ahead in ceramic and composite blades. No one was chest beating about being behind UK and US in basically all turbofans.

Besting Russia in a few aeroengine areas is hardly chest beating. It's just a statement of fact. While what you said is all true, well and good, you could also spare a thought for the inverse of what you're claiming. No one here was acting the way you are claiming. I completely agree with this whole thing being quite pointless. We should move on.