J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Air Force Brat]

But I think the main point of canard configuration is that you go to tailless (stereotypical 6th gen planform) very easily from canards. It's a compromise for supercruise, supersonic maneuverability, and so on vs base stealth (since the forewings are no longer blocking the edge of the tail), but it also offers the potential for TVC-based yaw control while still having back-ups should the TVC system fail.

Actually Dr. Song's rationale was to optimize pitch rate and control of his aft mounted delta design, since OVT was not at that time available, nor was it going to be in the immediate future. In the absence of OVT, the canard and ventral fins would enable recovery from post stall maneuvering, and enhance pitch rate and enhance overall maneuverability and control, especially in the low speed and supersonic flight regimes at both ends of the flight envelope.

You are correct in the theory that if the J-20 were to go eliminate the ruddervators and ventral fins at some point and go tailless?, 3D OVT would possibly enhance yaw control? but I'm not at all convinced that anybody at Chengdu wants to go down that path? as OVT remains in its infancy in Chinese engine technology, having just begun flight test very recently?

It may or may not be a feature of the WS-15 engines? which have yet to be seen or flight tested on the J-20, many knowledgeable folks believing we are looking to at least 2025 to begin flight test of the WS-15 on the J-20.

The fact that J-20 batch production has finally resumed and the J-20 remains in its final pre-production form is indicative of a stable, long term commitment to its present configuration

 

[kurutoga]

I am more Interested in the fact that f35 and f22 seem to have applied some treatment to every single body panel. While there is no such trwatment visible on the j20. As if j20 has ram treatment only on select places like the surface edges.

I have to guess that the F35 solution was to cover the gaps and seams. The J20 solution is only done to the edges. Even though they are both gray, they are for different purposes therefore could be complete different materials.

 

[plawolf]

I find it interesting they didn’t bother to clip the trailing edge of the ventricle fins like they have with pretty much every other trailing edge surface on the plane.

 

[kurutoga]

I find it interesting they didn’t bother to clip the trailing edge of the ventricle fins like they have with pretty much every other trailing edge surface on the plane.

Only acute angles.

 

[Inst]

Actually Dr. Song's rationale was to optimize pitch rate and control of his aft mounted delta design, since OVT was not at that time available, nor was it going to be in the immediate future. In the absence of OVT, the canard and ventral fins would enable recovery from post stall maneuvering, and enhance pitch rate and enhance overall maneuverability and control, especially in the low speed and supersonic flight regimes at both ends of the flight envelope.

You are correct in the theory that if the J-20 were to go eliminate the ruddervators and ventral fins at some point and go tailless?, 3D OVT would possibly enhance yaw control? but I'm not at all convinced that anybody at Chengdu wants to go down that path? as OVT remains in its infancy in Chinese engine technology, having just begun flight test very recently?

It may or may not be a feature of the WS-15 engines? which have yet to be seen or flight tested on the J-20, many knowledgeable folks believing we are looking to at least 2025 to begin flight test of the WS-15 on the J-20.

The fact that J-20 batch production has finally resumed and the J-20 remains in its final pre-production form is indicative of a stable, long term commitment to its present configuration

The question is how much do we emphasize radar stealth and how much do we emphasize IR stealth and maneuverability?

Of course we've all see the Song Weicong planform design figures, but I'll point out, the Song Weicong originally called for caret fixed inlets a la the F-22, but this somehow got changed to a DSI. So it's a data point, but has to be taken with a grain of salt.

To put into other words, a tailfined J-20 with TVC is a J-20 that emphasizes maneuverability more than range (removing tailfins reduces drag) and radar stealth (ditto). The odd thing is, with a transition to IR-detection (B-21), the tailfined J-20 with TVC may actually be more stealthy than the J-20 without tailfins because the enemy is now B-21s running EO AEW&C, and the tailfins enhance IR stealth.

In this circumstance, strangely, the F-35 becomes the most stealth optimal design, with small size, a single low-powered engine, and tailfins / conventional tail to enhance IR stealth while enhancing radar stealth at the same time.

 

[Hyperwarp]

2x J-20A with WS-10C -

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[by78]

More high-resolution images.

 

[Air Force Brat]

In this circumstance, strangely, the F-35 becomes the most stealth optimal design, with small size, a single low-powered engine, and tailfins / conventional tail to enhance IR stealth while enhancing radar stealth at the same time.

In actuality the F-22 remains the most powerful stealthy L/O aircraft on the planet, the F-35 is indeed very stealthy, and occupies the #2 spot in regards to low RCS and low IR signature......

now??, where in tarnation did you come up with "a single low-powered engine"?? to describe the Pratt and Whitney F-135 engine???? the F-135 is the single most powerful fighter aircraft engine ever produced, and none of our "near peers" or even our ally's are anywhere near the thrust rating of the F-135???

I mean really??? that's not in dispute anywhere on the planet??? but these "logic failures"??? if you were a computer my friend?? you would be in the recycle bin.... yes???

 

[by78]

Two newly released old images.

 

[manqiangrexue]

In actuality the F-22 remains the most powerful stealthy L/O aircraft on the planet, the F-35 is indeed very stealthy, and occupies the #2 spot in regards to low RCS and low IR signature......

In actuality, you have no idea about that. That ranking is in your hopes and imagination.

now??, where in tarnation did you come up with "a single low-powered engine"?? to describe the Pratt and Whitney F-135 engine???? the F-135 is the single most powerful fighter aircraft engine ever produced, and none of our "near peers" or even our ally's are anywhere near the thrust rating of the F-135???

F-35 has the lowest thrust of any stealth fighter and it most likely also has the lowest TWR.

I mean really??? that's not in dispute anywhere on the planet??? but these "logic failures"??? if you were a computer my friend?? you would be in the recycle bin.... yes???

If he were a computer in the recycle bin, you'd be an abacus in the museum LOL