J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[taxiya]

That really isn't a surprise if it was a ground control radar; i.e.: a radar from say a nearby airbase or base meant for simple tracking rather than a radar as part of an IADS.

If they're not even able to track a J-10C loaded with external stores and relying on an H-6 tanker then chances are the radar itself was a simple one. That makes sense, because it's not like they would've deployed an HQ-9 battery with its radar actively emitting over Zhurihe during the parade last year. The only radars that would've been active during the parade over the area likely would've been relatively simple ground tracking radars from local bases meant for simple air traffic management.

That is plausible.

There is another possible explanation. It is AWAC instead of ground radar. The aircrafts were flying very low to the ground, there will be strong ground scatter returns. AWAC flies very high, there is a need to employ filters to counter the noise. It could be that the filter threshold was set too high that J-10C was around the threshold making it some times buried in the noise. While flankers were above the threshold enough to be reliably tracked.

Here is the translation of the text

measure 3 (to address the issue of detection): appropriately adjust the threshold, turn off as much as possible attenuations that affect detection, let in more noises if tolerable.

This would be more likely the issue of a look-down radar than a look-up one.

 

[Blitzo]

That is plausible.

There is another possible explanation. It is AWAC instead of ground radar. The aircrafts were flying very low to the ground, there will be strong ground scatter returns. AWAC flies very high, there is a need to employ filters to counter the noise. It could be that the filter threshold was set too high that J-10C was around the threshold making it some times buried in the noise. While flankers were above the threshold enough to be reliably tracked.

Here is the translation of the text

measure 3 (to address the issue of detection): appropriately adjust the threshold, turn off as much as possible attenuations that affect detection, let in more noises if tolerable.

This would be more likely the issue of a look-down radar than a look-up one.

I doubt they would've been operating any radars directed over Zhurihe airspace more complex than an air traffic control radar.

 

[siegecrossbow]

That is plausible.

There is another possible explanation. It is AWAC instead of ground radar. The aircrafts were flying very low to the ground, there will be strong ground scatter returns. AWAC flies very high, there is a need to employ filters to counter the noise. It could be that the filter threshold was set too high that J-10C was around the threshold making it some times buried in the noise. While flankers were above the threshold enough to be reliably tracked.

Here is the translation of the text

measure 3 (to address the issue of detection): appropriately adjust the threshold, turn off as much as possible attenuations that affect detection, let in more noises if tolerable.

This would be more likely the issue of a look-down radar than a look-up one.

Why would they have an operational AWAC during a parade?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Perhaps Chinese radar are not that good?

Likely has to do with air traffic radar vs targeting radars and ranges. Because this was over Bejing I doubt there is a dedicated radar in the middle of such a electromagnetic mess as a major metropolis.
So trying to keep track of aircraft at extreme ranges by overlapping radar signals then compounded by urban returns and semi LO as well as VLO aircraft returns.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Likely has to do with air traffic radar vs targeting radars and ranges. Because this was over Bejing I doubt there is a dedicated radar in the middle of such a electromagnetic mess as a major metropolis.
So trying to keep track of aircraft at extreme ranges by overlapping radar signals then compounded by urban returns and semi LO as well as VLO aircraft returns.

Well the aircraft are "low" and there is a lot of "ground clutter", if it is anything like Zhuhai, there are hills and various back scatter...

As to AWACS, that's just exactly what AWAC's does best, is to pick up a moving target against all the ground clutter, loosing the J-20 does continue to illustrate the veracity of L/O shaping and coatings, the only surprise was the implication that they had difficulty following the J-10C, and I agree, it is more likely a misinterpretation, the H-6 being the larger dominant target, might overshadow the J-10 in trail.

 

[Hyperwarp]

I was wondering why the J-10C was mentioned along with the J-20 since the J-10B was also in the parade.

Then I realized, the J-10B formation was much bigger. 8x J-10B along with the KJ-2000. J-10C had only 2x birds in their formation. All other fighters had 3x or more.

 

[taxiya]

Why would they have an operational AWAC during a parade?

The question should be "why do they want tracking of the formation in the first place". Using AWAC or ground based radar is doing the same job "air traffic control".

The reason that I proposed AWAC is not because I personally prefer it, but because the paper's suggestion of improvement talking about adjusting threshold of noises. This is more of an issue to airborne radar than ground radar.

 

[taxiya]

I doubt they would've been operating any radars directed over Zhurihe airspace more complex than an air traffic control radar.

I don't object your point of "no need" but rather suggested AWAC due to the "improvement measure 3" in the paper. As of why AWAC, I have no idea.

 

[taxiya]

Likely has to do with air traffic radar vs targeting radars and ranges. Because this was over Bejing I doubt there is a dedicated radar in the middle of such a electromagnetic mess as a major metropolis.
So trying to keep track of aircraft at extreme ranges by overlapping radar signals then compounded by urban returns and semi LO as well as VLO aircraft returns.

It is over "Zhurihe" base, some 406km northwest of Beijing. I made the same assumption at beginning as well but.

 

[taxiya]

Well the aircraft are "low" and there is a lot of "ground clutter", if it is anything like Zhuhai, there are hills and various back scatter...

As to AWACS, that's just exactly what AWAC's does best, is to pick up a moving target against all the ground clutter, loosing the J-20 does continue to illustrate the veracity of L/O shaping and coatings, the only surprise was the implication that they had difficulty following the J-10C, and I agree, it is more likely a misinterpretation, the H-6 being the larger dominant target, might overshadow the J-10 in trail.

That makes very good sense regardless what radar is used to track them. As Hyperwarp said, there were only two J-c10C just meters behind a H-6. The radar may only see a big bright spot.