J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[dawn_strike]

And if you look closely on another similar clear shot you can (probably) even read the construction number: J-20A cn. CB0018 ... could be the 18th J-20A build of this batch!?

View attachment 49994

I am curious about what the CB may refer to.

 

[tony0989]

probably means Chengdu Born 1st batch no.18, my chinaman

 

[Air Force Brat]

LOL you know I'm tough to impress, but I was Yesterday at 9:28 PM

yes you are, and I'm happy that something did finally impress you here, it is a beautiful photograph, I only wish the whole aircraft where in the photograph!

 

[Air Force Brat]

The J-20 has all-moving tailfins; check the deflection on them. It has a tailfin whose body can be swung around by a pivot on the body of the aircraft. The F-35 and F-22, in contrast, have rudders on their tailfins.

If you look at the FB-22 concept, it's possible to mod the F-22 to lack tailfins as well, but the big problem is trade-offs. You lose part of the control authority and you become more dependent on the TVC to maneuver the aircraft than if you had tailfins with true rudders. If the TVC somehow fails, you're in big trouble.

With the J-20, however, because of the canard configuration, it's easier for the aircraft to discard the tailfins because you already have the canards capable of performing some, but not all, of the function of the tailfins, and likely can return home in one piece if your TVC somehow jams.

We were having a discussion regarding the fact that canards create "positive lift", and stabilators/horizontal stabs create "down force"! The J-20 also has "elavons" on the trailing edge of the aft mounted delta for "pitch control", the F-22 has "stabilons" on the tailboom's immediately behind the main wing for "pitch control"...... the discussion was only about whether or not the canard's would create more drag in trimmed flight than the aft mounted "stabilon's"...

Tailfin is a generic term here, but had you read and comprehended the previous discussion, you would have ascertained that we were discussing "pitch"'

so while I could write you a book about the aerodynamics of the J-20, your addition of the all flying rudder into the discussion is missing the point,,,,

Mods: please feel free to move this discussion to the aerodynamics thread

 

[Inst]

Just to elaborate, the J-20 has an X-configuration between its main wings and canards. So the canards are actually not just tailplanes moved forward, but also a bit like tailfins moved forward. I still believe the final evolution of the J-20 design would be to ditch the tailfins and do canard + main wing. Such a design, in shaping terms, would likely be around that of the F-22 and F-35, and have a good chance of exceeding the American stealth fighters.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Just to elaborate, the J-20 has an X-configuration between its main wings and canards. So the canards are actually not just tailplanes moved forward, but also a bit like tailfins moved forward. I still believe the final evolution of the J-20 design would be to ditch the tailfins and do canard + main wing. Such a design, in shaping terms, would likely be around that of the F-22 and F-35, and have a good chance of exceeding the American stealth fighters.

Here again, we were NOT talking about all flying rudders,,, , I think the J-20 is a beautiful well conceived airplane just as Dr. Song/Yang Wei conceived it, I really do....

Now before you go and redesign the whole damn thing, just remember the J-20 not only has fairly good sized all flying rudders, but it has huge ventral fins to maintain yaw control,,, I have no idea why members have such an "infatuation" with destroying the yaw stability of any fighter aircraft.....

for the record there is NOT one single fighter airplane with NO vertical stab, not a single one, a very few bombers, but that my friend is a whole different animal???

my only thought?? (stupid me??) was that those canards are always producing lift, creating drag, the stabilator is designed to provide just enough down force to provide a positive angle of attack for wing, and trimmed out in level flight, is likely producing slightly less drag than the canard???

mods feel free to move this whole discussion to the aerodynamics thread,,, I'm gonna try to shut up now?? I really am.......

 

[Air Force Brat]

It makes more sense to ditch tailfins than canards; the canards are integral to the J-20's design and if the canards go, the wings would also need to be adjusted as they're built to be co-planar with canards. The tailfins, on the other hand, add / remove 2-4 planes to the J-20.

it really doesn't make a bit of sense to change the airframe at all, really, that's just nonsense, its a beautiful airplane that flies very well, very well!

 

[Air Force Brat]

More high-resolution photos of J-20's weapons bays...

Would you consider starting a new thread dedicated to all the pictures from Zhuhai 2018, that way we could look at each of these awesome pictures and see the many and varied details revealed here recently,,, how many pictures have you posted?? a hundred or so, anyway, it might make sense to "sticky" that thread??

 

[Deino]

Would you consider starting a new thread dedicated to all the pictures from Zhuhai 2018, that way we could look at each of these awesome pictures and see the many and varied details revealed here recently,,, how many pictures have you posted?? a hundred or so, anyway, it might make sense to "sticky" that thread??

Pardon, but we have already a decent thread on the Zhuhai Airshow:

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/zhuhai-air-show-2018.t8316/


So at least IMO there's no need for yet another pure picture-thread.

 

[siegecrossbow]

No one posted Blitzo's article here?

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J-20 Receives a Proper Showcase

A pair of J-20s overflew Zhuhai Airshow 2016 in a brief 60 second debut; however, they did not demonstrate anything close to what the platform was capable of achieving, even when compared to amateur footage of J-20 test flights taken in Chengdu. But during Zhuhai 2018, multiple active service J-20s conducted more comprehensive displays lasting multiple minutes, on multiple days. The J-20 demonstrations started with a three or four ship formation overflight, leading into a series of tight turns and impressive climbs, showcasing arguably the most brisk maneuvers that have ever been observed from the J-20.

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and photos taken at the scene show some of the best J-20 photos ever taken to date, with impressive vortex and condensation generation effects atop the aircraft in a manner never captured before.

Some observers and enthusiasts felt the J-10B’s TVC demonstration overshadowed the J-20. However, considering the J-10B was equipped with TVC as well as a powerplant suited to its weight category (whereas J-20s remain relatively underpowered with AL-31s), not to mention likely constraints placed by the PLA on the public performance of its newest air superiority fighter, the J-20’s display was quite impressive. Indeed, after the J-20’s demonstration at Zhuhai this year, one would be rather obtuse to insist the aircraft is a dedicated interceptor or dedicated strike aircraft.

This nicely segues into revelation of new J-20 information away from the flight display. Some AVIC press conferences and pamphlets provided new details of the J-20 as a project, as well as confirming what has long been speculated about the J-20’s role and performance. An official AVIC

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describes the J-20’s role as one of “seizing and maintaining air superiority” with additional missions including interception and strike, confirming what has been widely speculated about the J-20’s role since the mid-2000s, when it was only known as J-XX among the PLA watching community.

Another fascinating

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with J-20 chief designer Yang Wei and the first J-20 test pilot Li Gang provided additional details surrounding the aircraft. Although we have yet to receive pictures of a J-20’s cockpit, Li Gang stated the J-20 uses a side control stick, in a first for a Chinese fighter jet. Extensive collaboration between pilots and designers were involved in the process of developing the aircraft’s cockpit. As expected, statements praising the aircraft’s stealth were also made. But most revealing however, was Li Gang’s statement that the J-20 boasted excellent agility and handling, as good as the J-10. Confirming that the large, stealthy air superiority J-20 fighter can achieve kinematic performance similar to one of the PLA’s most agile fourth generation aircraft using only underpowered interim engines further confirms past speculation that the J-20 was designed to achieve competitive aerodynamic performance even when using interim engines, while awaiting WS-15s.

A note has to be made of some articles over the last few days suggesting that the J-20 was to attend Zhuhai installed with WS-15 engines, and that mass production of the WS-15 was imminent, in a story dating back a few months. However, in the PLA watching community such claims were considered to be highly erroneous at best, as there have been no credible rumors or pictures of WS-15s even starting tests aboard a J-20, let alone powering in service J-20s for a sufficient period to be displayed at a high profile event like Zhuhai.

Finally, on the last day of Zhuhai, the J-20 display included a pair of J-20s opening weapons bays to reveal a full loadout of air-to-air training missiles, including two PL-10 short range missiles and four PL-15 beyond visual range missiles. Such openness is unprecedented for the PLA, and even rare for other air forces flying their own stealth fighters.