J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[latenlazy]

Or maybe the J-20's pitch authority is just fine? TVC expands the flight envelope in more ways than one.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

From Dafengcao
J-10B: “Bro, new engine has been tested for you, it feels powerful.” J-20: “Oh, nice! Let me install one first”

 

[vesicles]

If true, this would give the strongest testament to date that the Chinese were beyond impressed with the kinematic performance of the OVT on those SU-35's..

I'd like the hear the Eng's take on this, Eng??

one of our few aerodynamic area's of disagreement,, it would also tell us the canard alone did NOT bring them the pitch authority they were seeking??

I'm going to remain skeptical at this stage, and while I only remember them delivering 9 SU-35s?? did I miss something, they bought 24,,,

Maybe the PLA has always been interested in the TVC. They just hadn't been able to implement one until now...

 

[vesicles]

From Dafengcao
J-10B: “Bro, new engine has been tested for you, it feels powerful.” J-20: “Oh, nice! Let me install one first”

This sketch does suggest that the TVC installed on the J-20 is indeed a functional TVC engine, not just a nozzle for testing stealth.

If they are simply testing stealth of the TVC nozzles on their old engines, they should have no problem putting the TVC-like nozzles on both engines since it's cosmetic anyway. Being extra cautious and putting one TVC suggest that they are testing a new engine.

 

[jobjed]

Now there's a drawing.
View attachment 46103

Could someone translate?
View attachment 45995

The canopy's detonation cords look like those on the 2016 and 2017 prototypes, but the front of the canopy is curved whereas 2017's is straight, as below:

By contrast, the 2016's canopy is curved, like below:

The rest of the prototype have zigzag det cords, as below:

However, 2016 doesn't have a pitot tube in front of the nose and only 2011 and 2012 did. Additionally, the engine petals of the AL-31 has the early prototype pattern as opposed to the more subdued grey/black of the later prototypes and production aircraft. Comparison below:

So, to summarise, the J-20 testing TVC has:

• The det cord config of 2016 and 2017
• Pitot tube of 2011 and 2012
• The engine petals of 2001-2015
• Canopy shape of 2001-2016

My guess is it's 2011 or 2012 with rearranged det cords.

 

[Klon]

My guess is it's 2011 or 2012 with rearranged det cords.

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thinks (knows?) so too.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Maybe the PLA has always been interested in the TVC. They just hadn't been able to implement one until now...

I think they likely had decided according to the Eng, that it was more trouble than it was worth,, obviously the Chinese have changed their minds after flying the SU-35, OVT is a game changer on a big heavy bird like the Flanker, and the J-20...

now if I were building the F-22B, I would still be tempted forget OVT, the F-35 actually does quite well without it, in spite of what the naysayers tell us. I'm sure the J-20 has a very healthy "pitch rate",,, but post stall or even WVR, makes you want to max those numbers out, you pull and pull, trying to make things happen faster, with OVT, you pull and it goes where you point it, that's nice!

 

[taxiya]

I think they likely had decided according to the Eng, that it was more trouble than it was worth,, obviously the Chinese have changed their minds after flying the SU-35, OVT is a game changer on a big heavy bird like the Flanker, and the J-20...

now if I were building the F-22B, I would still be tempted forget OVT, the F-35 actually does quite well without it, in spite of what the naysayers tell us. I'm sure the J-20 has a very healthy "pitch rate",,, but post stall or even WVR, makes you want to max those numbers out, you pull and pull, trying to make things happen faster, with OVT, you pull and it goes where you point it, that's nice!

Eng is very knowledgeable, but he too could be wrong on this one. After all the PLA has been developing TVC for a long time, as long as J-20 itself. Another evidence of PLA's interest is that there are many institutes doing all sorts of TVC research, and there are at least two types of TVC nozzles being tested more than a decade ago. If the PLA is not extremely interested in it, pouring so much resources in would be crazy for nothing.

 

[taxiya]

Could this J-20 carton testbed being the one photographed with saw-teeth engine some months ago?

If so, that could mean that the J-10 TVC and J-20 TVC test beds are simultaneous work for J-20.

Edit: after reading #2238, I change my mind.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Since the J-20 is optimized for supersonic maneuverability, adding TVC will enhance its capabilities in low-altitude and low-speed maneuvers should the situation arise.