J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Inst]

I'll also point out that the F-22 is not a true multirole fighter. It has to fire with SDBs and can't load strike missiles like the F-35. With SDBs, it has extremely short range vs anti-air systems, and its small bomb load and high operating costs mean that its air-to-ground ability is only useful insofar as it is a stealth aircraft.

With a larger bomb bay, the J-20 is better as a strike aircraft, but it needs the actual missiles to take on a strike role.

The cant goes, the J-20 is going to get upgraded to a family of systems, which means attack / strike variants of the J-20, i.e, larger weapons bays, or better integrated ECM pods.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

What you described is very much on the low end of what I described.

Call mine step 1, yours step 12.

 

[Inst]

I'll self-correct, the F-22 can launch JDAMs, but the launch range is 28 km.

 

[Klon]

I think you and others are over-interpreting too much in this change of colour ... we also know some in grey and others in plain yellow in that area.

I must admit I cannot explain that but during the F-22's phase of production the colour of several parts and their primer changed or was different. I don't think that in most cases the explanation was much more simple than to assume they introduced some sort of new material.

Just my 2 cents.

While I wouldn't judge by the color or even claim with any certainty that the J-20 is using the technology, there are connections with the company/laboratory:

Yang Wei is a

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of the Academic Committee of the

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of Metamaterial Electromagnetic Modulation Technology and spoke at a

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on the topic. The company (Kuang-Chi) exhibited products at the Zhuhai Airshow.

 

[Klon]

More on metamaterials.
Liu Ruopeng, founder of Kuang-Chi, said that metamaterials are being used on China's fifth-generation aircraft (via

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;

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).

 

[taxiya]

A summary of this metamaterial (one of many) in my previously posted CCTV episode

• Stealth
• Heat, fire resistant
• Anti-icing
• An urgently needed material in the field of aero industry (for aircraft).
• First and only mass production line in the world.

If it is not meant to be used by J-20 or FC-31, what is the point of mass production? Build the production facility without being used? Only to see it become outdated by the time when some future aircraft need it?

I am not saying J-20's early prototypes used it, not even all the small-batch built 7xxxx birds are necessarily using it, nor J-20 are fully covered with it. What I suggested was that the later J-20 prototypes are experimenting it, and probably the serial productions (big batches yet to come) will be using it.

To answer my own question regarding the DSI bump, although the bump blocks engine inlet, itself is not a flat surface, it will reflect the radar waves in the same way as traditional aircraft fuselage. Unlike traditional absorbent which reflects but reduced radio energy, the metamaterial leads the incoming radio waves to travel along the surface of it much like a wave guard. So all radio energy will never go back to the source, it will go back and forth along the surface and each time being reduced. This is perfect for non-flat surface like the bump. This may be why it is applied on the bump first if it not applied all over the aircraft already for early assessment of the effectiveness of it.

 

[Tirdent]

One area where the J-20 is almost certain to employ a metamaterial is the radome. As in other 4.5 and 5th generation aircraft, this is highly likely to be a frequency selective surface, allowing radome internal RAM treatments to be relatively simple (in-band only).

Whether metamaterial applications go beyond this relatively conventional scope is probably not going to be released into the public domain.

 

[Blitzo]

One area where the J-20 is almost certain to employ a metamaterial is the radome. As in other 4.5 and 5th generation aircraft, this is highly likely to be a frequency selective surface, allowing radome internal RAM treatments to be relatively simple (in-band only).

Whether metamaterial applications go beyond this relatively conventional scope is probably not going to be released into the public domain.

I mean, part of the discussion is about whether this "new" metamaterial is being used in Chinese 5th generation aircraft in a manner that was previously not used before in previous generations of 4/4.5 aircraft or even previous J-20 prototype airframes.

I'm not yet fully convinced that this material is currently being used on J-20s (or due to be used on J-20s) yet, but I do think the manner of the disclosure and the statements given in the documentary (as well as possible statements from people connected to the company and institutes involved) make me think that the documentary is not "merely" talking about the use of such materials in conventional manners seen in previous generations of aircraft, like the radome.

After all, as you said, such technology should very much be old hat, and the documentary is portraying it as something entirely new and fresh. It's possible of course that the documentary might be trying to exaggerate something old to make it seem new, but that generally doesn't seem to be the style of these sort of CCTV documentaries.

 

[defenceman]

Hi is it not possible for PLANAF to have something like E2 D their own
So they can detect and destroy f22 or f35 instead of destroying American E2D first
Any member with more information please
Thank you

 

[Tirdent]

It's possible of course that the documentary might be trying to exaggerate something old to make it seem new, but that generally doesn't seem to be the style of these sort of CCTV documentaries.

Yes, my point was that a quantum leap in metamaterial application, if achieved, may well not be publicly acknowledged in detail.

As for assertions of a world first, maybe I'm a jaded cynic, but that invariably arouses my suspicions. If you do some research, it so often turns out that somebody else has been doing it for ages (even when the claim originates in the specialised press rather than mass media) that it's not even funny. I mean, Kinzhal is the world's first air-launched ballistic missile, Gutenberg invented movable type and GE pioneered swept fan blades & 3D compressor aerodynamics*, right?

* A favourite example of mine - poorly known, but extremely impressive. I'd rather not digress, but can certainly elaborate if there is interest.