J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[latenlazy]

What was the "extremely sound" logic and reasoning? It looks bigger so it has to be heavier? LOL If you know bicycles like you say, then which is heavier? A 54cm Trek Emonda SLR9 or a 51cm Litespeed T1?

20% titanium is a plus, not a minus. What do you think the other parts are? Lead? LOL The other parts are composite, which are even lighter than titanium. The goal is to minimize alloy use, not maximize it. Otherwise, you could build the whole thing out to titanium and not have any issues. J-20's 20% titanium is far more advanced than F-22's 40%.

Al-31 is not 20% this or that of F-119. It's about 66% in dry thrust, 88% in wet thrust, which is why F-22 excels at supercruise. You can't even be bothered with those numbers and I'm supposed to think you can calculate jet performance? Don't be funny...

I don't know if you're old so you forgot or what is it but we had this F-15 vs F-22 conversation before and it's not to your favor. It proves that aircraft design can overcome engine deficiencies, not something you want to argue if you wanted to pretend that F-22 was superior to J-20.

The known construction methods were laid out for you to see many times but you're clearly selectively blind. Chinese 3D printing reduces titanium structure weight by 40%. You've seen this many times with the source too, right? Last time, it shocked you so badly, you fell apart, asking how come F-35 WELDS did not carry the weight savings of 3D PRINTING. You might as well ask if supercomputers can get to 100pf then how come your 2014 Dell can't LOL. But I bet you'll pretend you didn't see it next time too. "Ohhh how could this be? No one in the world could have made any progress since 20 years ago. How could a jet be lighter than Raptor? Can't be." That's you forever LOL.

Seige might be honest, but it don't mean he's right. I'm not accusing him of lying; I'm saying his logic is off. Happens to the most honest person in the world. HEEE HEE HO HA

Frankly, we don’t know enough to know either way. You can logic your way to either conclusion with the sparse information we have on hand, so maybe cut out the unprompted smug self certitude. There’s no point in being so abrasive in a discussion which has up to now been relatively civil.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Frankly, we don’t know enough to know either way. You can logic your way to either conclusion with the sparse information we have on hand, so maybe cut out the unprompted smug self certitude.

No, I already said whatever reservations I had about the 15 tonne figure and I already said that we can't debate our way to see which jet is better. But when people come in sure that F-22 has better performance, I give them their smugness right back, especially people who have been retired for 30 years pretending that nothing changes and they still know everything there is to know in the industry.

 

[latenlazy]

No, I already said whatever reservations I had about the 15 tonne figure and I already said that we can't debate our way to see which jet is better. But when people come in sure that F-22 has better performance, I give them their smugness right back, especially people who have been retired for 30 years pretending that nothing changes and they still know everything there is to know in the industry.

Yet there’s no need to make it personal.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Yet there’s no need to make it personal.

There is. Since he cannot put any logic to his "argument" (he literally has nothing other than, "J-20 is bigger so it can't be lighter") he constantly defers to how old/how much experience he had, as if that's supposed to intimidate people who wanted to confront him with evidence and make them just assume he's right. Then, he will give acclaim to all those who agree with him calling them honest and upstanding or whatever to make it sound as if all the smart people agree with him and if you don't, that makes you dishonest and biased. Since he ignores logic and evidence (time and time again ignoring the evidence of titanium 3D printing reducing weight by 40%), the best way to deal with his sad strategy is to remind him of how incompetent and divorced from the field he is and how little weight his "experience" carries.

 

[latenlazy]

There is. Since he cannot put any logic to his "argument" (he literally has nothing other than, "J-20 is bigger so it can't be lighter") he constantly defers to how old/how much experience he had, as if that's supposed to intimidate people who wanted to confront him with evidence and make them just assume he's right. Then, he will give acclaim to all those who agree with him calling them honest and upstanding or whatever to make it sound as if all the smart people agree with him and if you don't, that makes you dishonest and biased. Since he ignores logic and evidence (time and time again ignoring the evidence of titanium 3D printing reducing weight by 40%), the best way to deal with his sad strategy is to remind him of how incompetent and divorced from the field he is and how little weight his "experience" carries.

I’m not a fan of AFB’s tone or approach to argumentation either, but if he hasn’t gotten out of his way to attack anyone personally, it’s probably wiser not to be the one to start. You can make the same practical points without being demeaning. If what he’s saying sounds backhanded and disingenuous you can call it out without engaging in personal mud wrestling.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I’m not a fan of AFB’s tone or approach to argumentation either, but if he hasn’t gotten out of his way to attack anyone personally, it’s probably wiser not to be the one to start. You can make the same practical points without being demeaning. If what he’s saying sounds backhanded and disingenuous you can call it out without engaging in personal mud wrestling.

What difference does it make? He'll forget and by the next post he'll be right back to "There are no known methods at all for reducing titanium weight! F-22 climbs better than F-15 so it's gotta be better than J-20! All you fellas who don't believe J-20 is 15 tonnes for no logical reason have gotta be the smartest, most honest and lovable people in the world, probably smarter than J-20's designers!" LOL

 

[latenlazy]

What difference does it make? He'll forget and by the next post he'll be right back to "There are no known methods at all for reducing titanium weight! F-22 climbs better than F-15 so it's gotta be better than J-20! All you fellas who don't believe J-20 is 15 tonnes for no explainable reason have gotta be the smartest people in the world, probably smarter than J-20's designers!" LOL

That same point applies to personal insult though.

 

[manqiangrexue]

That same point applies to personal insult though.

It's only an insult if it's not true. I called him forgetful, divorced from the field he left many decades ago, and selectively blind to evidence. All of this was evidenced in his text; those are observations, not insults. I didn't go 50 Cent on him, did I? That would be insulting.

 

[latenlazy]

It's only an insult if it's not true. I called him forgetful, divorced from the field he left many decades ago, and selectively blind to evidence. All of this was evidenced in his text; those are observations, not insults. I didn't go 50 Cent on him, did I? That would be insulting.

Things that are true can still be an insult. What makes something an insult is the intent to hurt, not how true something is.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Things that are true can still be an insult. What makes something an insult is the intent to hurt, not how true something is.

Yeah, I'd be nicer if his attitude wasn't so smug. If a nice kid fails the 4th grade 3 times, I might tell him he should explore alternative careers to being a scientist or doctor or lawyer because those are boring. If a kid fails the 4th grade 3 times and screams about how awesome and how much smarter he is than everyone else, I'm letting him know that he's goddamn stupid.