J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[tidalwave]

A few reasons, with one reason being distance, and physics.

Anti radiation missiles against SAM ground radars do not have a range much greater than 100km. I'm not sure if simply putting a standard anti radiation missile passive seeker for anti AEW&C duties will allow a targeting solution greater than 100km.
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The resulting anti-radiation version of YJ-91 missile has a slightly increased the range to 120

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in comparison to 110 km of the original Kh-31P.

So, it can launch at 120km.

now what's AWAC detecting range against a stealth fighter?

The fact is the AWAC is a beacon and that's not going to change. But what can be change is the sophistication of the anti-radiation missile, The 120km can be pushed to 140km, 160km....etc.

 

[Blitzo]

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The resulting anti-radiation version of YJ-91 missile has a slightly increased the range to 120

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in comparison to 110 km of the original Kh-31P.

So, it can launch at 120km.

now what's AWAC detecting range against a stealth fighter?

120km against a ground target.
What is the range against an aerial target,, which is moving? Substantially lower, I think.

Furthermore, what stealth fighter can even carry a Kh-31 sized weapon internally in the first place? None, so far.

My point stands -- no practical aerial "anti-AEW&C" missile currently exists in service.

 

[tidalwave]

120km against a ground target.
What is the range against an aerial target,, which is moving? Substantially lower, I think.

Furthermore, what stealth fighter can even carry a Kh-31 sized weapon internally in the first place? None, so far.

My point stands -- no practical aerial "anti-AEW&C" missile currently exists in service.

Well that next big missile that come out one day that would revolutionize things much like DF21D.
I think AWACs one day would all be neutralized.

 

[Blitzo]

Well that next big missile that come out one day that would revolutionize things much like DF21D.
I think AWACs one day would all be neutralized.

Okay, but the point is no such missile yet exists in service.

Also, in the future if such a missile is developed countermeasures will also be developed -- such as air to air missiles designed for intercepting large anti radiation missiles, or ECM, or even lasers.

It's best to not think about "silver bullets," because even DF-21D is not a silver bullet.

 

[tidalwave]

It's best to not think about "silver bullets," because even DF-21D is not a silver bullet.

I think it still a factor, you might able to intercept but at what rate?
also you might able to intercept using laser, and other interceptors at good weather. but what about at bad weather. I think inteception rate goes down exponentially at bad weather condition.

You can't just fight war at only good weather condition.

 

[Blitzo]

I think it still a factor, you might able to intercept but at what rate?
also you might able to intercept using laser, and other interceptors at good weather. but what about at bad weather. I think inteception rate goes down exponentially at bad weather condition.

You can't just fight war at only good weather condition.

Who knows what technology will be like in coming years, I was merely saying that countermeasures whether they're hard kill or soft kill will continue being developed for new weapons, including counter measures for any future large super long range anti AEW&C missiles.

The point is that no such weapon currently exists today.

 

[Brumby]

Okay, but the point is no such missile yet exists in service.

Also, in the future if such a missile is developed countermeasures will also be developed -- such as air to air missiles designed for intercepting large anti radiation missiles, or ECM, or even lasers.

It's best to not think about "silver bullets," because even DF-21D is not a silver bullet.

The problem is not in the missile or the range but as you have noted is that there is insufficient targeting information since intended target is not stationary. Home in radiation is solely based on direction and works best on ground targets because it is fixed. Having said that there is an existing technology that can acquire targets relying on passive emission. The ALR-94 which is supposedly the F-22's most potent technology is rumored to be able to pick up a target from 400kms away using narrowband interleaved search and track (NBILST). Whether this technology actually exist cannot be confirmed. I suspect that this is the key technology that enables the F-22 to dominate during Red Flag exercises but that is purely my personal speculation.

 

[Air Force Brat]

I think few have made that assumption here. Most members here I think are well aware of the lack of information we have in regards to J-20's capabilities especially in the domain of sensors and avionics.

actually, its fair to assume that a great many assumptions are made here my brother?? "accurate assessments grow from the seeds of logical assumptions" AFB 2/14/2016

 

[Blitzo]

The problem is not in the missile or the range but as you have noted is that there is insufficient targeting information since intended target is not stationary. Home in radiation is solely based on direction and works best on ground targets because it is fixed. Having said that there is an existing technology that can acquire targets relying on passive emission. The ALR-94 which is supposedly the F-22's most potent technology is rumored to be able to pick up a target from 400kms away using narrowband interleaved search and track (NBILST). Whether this technology actually exist cannot be confirmed. I suspect that this is the key technology that enables the F-22 to dominate during Red Flag exercises but that is purely my personal speculation.

Yes, modern ESM suites even through hearsay seem to offer very enhanced capabilities... a true long range anti AEW&C anti radiation missile would require that technology to allow for reliable real time geolocation of a moving target (possibly with a dual active seeker as well if the AEW&C shuts off its radar), all packaged into a sufficiently sized missile at affordable cost.

 

[Air Force Brat]

What head of the class warplanes relie on second-tier foreign engines?

The J-20 comes to mind?? and the AL-31FN is actually a very fine engine, I would remind you that WW-IIs P-51 Mustang was powered by the Rolls Royce Merlin V-12, and did remarkably well with a foreign engine?? LOL

so all this NIH think is rather counterproductive, I would imagine the J-20 will launch and mature nicely with a Russian engine, so lets be pragmatic here, the Chinese obviously do not share your lack of enthusiasm for the AL-31FN, but have instead gone with what is available.