J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Deino]

I can't answer your questions, but here is one reason that I think it's unlikely that we'll have a 2004, just like we don't have a 2014. The number '4' sounds like "death" in Chinese.

By the way, have we seen any picture of 2004?

Yes I know ... but here it is !

 

[taxiya]

Here's an interesting but somewhat baseless piece of speculation. What if we're seeing such rapid emergence of new J-20 airframes because of an accelerated production cycle from 3D printed bulkheads?

I think it is not basless, but quite possible. Rember the 3D printed bulkhead for J-11? That was quite some time ago. SAC claimed that it is being used for J-11 and J-31, no reason to believe J-20 not using it.

 

[vesicles]

I can't answer your questions, but here is one reason that I think it's unlikely that we'll have a 2004, just like we don't have a 2014. The number '4' sounds like "death" in Chinese.

By the way, have we seen any picture of 2004?

OK, we have gone through this many many times.

Firstly, #4 does NOT sound like "death" in Mandarin Chinese. It sounds like "death" in Cantonese. The concept of #4 being bad luck only became popular in the 1990's when Hong Kong culture became popular. Traditionally, "4" is actually a lucky # in China. The wedding symbol in China is a combination of 4 Chinese characters of "luck". And a famous Chinese dish is called "4 lucky (happy) meatball". Examples go on and on...

Secondly, the PLA is not superstitious. At least not openly so.

Also, we have many examples of the PLA assigning "4"-containing numbers to their prototypes. We have seen photos of "104" (maybe even 114??) of the J15 many times. So why does "4" all of a sudden become unlucky for the J-20, but perfectly fine with the J-15??

 

[taxiya]

Just a few completely different questions:

- Can anyone explain why we are so sure that the second prototype '2002' was renumbered to '2004' ???
....
I'm quite sure that they are all true ... but this "renumbering" issue is a story I simply do not understand.

Deino

hehe, I think I am the minority. I never believed the renumberring or the reason of "no 2004" being "4 sounds like death". Not only because of lack of evidence, but also because:

1. I don't believe the PLA being that superstitious to avoid 4 or prefer 8 and 6. They are communist, being supersitious at least will get a critisize/education, at worst being expelled from the PLA and party, it is happening right now. A individual can be whatever, but only without showing it publicly and officially.

2. I don't see PLA has that kind of absurd rigidity of must having 2002 doing one thing, 2004 doing another, when realized that two things can be done by one airframe, they renumber it. In a blunt but also popular way of expression in Chinese, it is called "take off pants to fart". I know some other countries' orgnization did similar things, but I have never heard Chinese ever did this way.

But, anyways that is just me thinking.

 

[taxiya]

OK, we have gone through this many many times.

Firstly, #4 does NOT sound like "death" in Mandarin Chinese. It sounds like "death" in Cantonese. The concept of #4 being bad luck only became popular in the 1990's when Hong Kong culture became popular. Traditionally, "4" is actually a lucky # in China. The wedding symbol in China is a combination of 4 Chinese characters of "luck". And a famous Chinese dish is called "4 lucky (happy) meatball". Examples go on and on...

Secondly, the PLA is not superstitious. At least not openly so.

Also, we have many examples of the PLA assigning "4"-containing numbers to their prototypes. We have seen photos of "104" (maybe even 114??) of the J15 many times. So why does "4" all of a sudden become unlucky for the J-20, but perfectly fine with the J-15??

regarding the supersitious issue, I think non of our western friends here and even many of our Chinese members here have ever had personal contact, involvement and interactions with personnels of Chinese millitary, government and agencies. The bulk of their knowledge is primarily from Hong Kong, Taiwan and the related area of southern China which is neither representitve/typical nor official (something that state promotes). Internet and especially Wiki just further enhanced the miss-conception. Check out this statistic from Pew 2015 for example

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and compare with wiki (if it hasn't been updated after Pew research).

 

[weig2000]

OK, we have gone through this many many times.

Firstly, #4 does NOT sound like "death" in Mandarin Chinese. It sounds like "death" in Cantonese. The concept of #4 being bad luck only became popular in the 1990's when Hong Kong culture became popular. Traditionally, "4" is actually a lucky # in China. The wedding symbol in China is a combination of 4 Chinese characters of "luck". And a famous Chinese dish is called "4 lucky (happy) meatball". Examples go on and on...

Secondly, the PLA is not superstitious. At least not openly so.

Also, we have many examples of the PLA assigning "4"-containing numbers to their prototypes. We have seen photos of "104" (maybe even 114??) of the J15 many times. So why does "4" all of a sudden become unlucky for the J-20, but perfectly fine with the J-15??

OK, points taken.

Personally, I don't care much about this superstitious practice, and understands it seems to be primarily a Hong Kong or South China thing. I was actually wondering why they don't have a 2014 or 2004 (I didn't see any 2004 pictures before or believe it was a confirmed one).

 

[Jeff Head]

So, what is it then?

Is there a 2002 and a 2004...separate aircraft?

Or was 2002 renumbered as 2004 and thus the same number of prototypes have been built?

Because if 2004 is a separate aircraft, then my total number of J-20 prototypes just increased by one:

For example

2001
2002
2004
2011
2012
2014
2015
2016
2017

There is also, of course, 2101, which I am not calling a prototype.

 

[Blitzo]

So, what is it then?

Is there a 2002 and a 2004...separate aircraft?

Or was 2002 renumbered as 2004 and thus the same number of prototypes have been built?

Because if 2004 is a separate aircraft, then my total number of J-20 prototypes just increased by one:

For example

2001
2002
2005
2011
2012
2014
2015
2016
2017

There is also, of course, 2101, which I am not calling a prototype.

From what I understand, of the current ID'd flying prototypes, there are:

2001
2002 (which may or may not have been later renumbered to 2004)
2011
2012
2013
2015
2016
2017

I do not believe there was a 2005 or 2014 flying prototype.

 

[Jeff Head]

From what I understand, of the current ID'd flying prototypes, there are:

2001
2002 (which may or may not have been later renumbered to 2004)
2011
2012
2013
2015
2016
2017

I do not believe there was a 2005 or 2014 flying prototype.

My bad...the 2005 in my list was supposed to be 2004. I fixed that.

Deino posted pics of 2004 a little while earlier, and I had not seen them before.

If they are real the question is whether it is a separate aircraft or renumbered.

I have heard it both ways now.

 

[vincent]

Maybe 2014 is the one on the pedestal.