J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[airsuperiority]

Eurgh.

J-20 is a relatively large airframe, yes, at 20.5m, but far from Mig-31's 22.7m. So yes it can mount powerful EW, passive sensors, and a massive whopping radar along with a good A2A load.
But it ain't an interceptor. It's an air superiority fighter with long legs. If it were a pure bred interceptor (and let's be honest -- no one has built such a type in many years) it would not have LERX, and certainly not canards, all features indicative of an agile air to air fighter.

These days, most new fighters are very capable interceptors. But interceptors do not make good fighters.

F-22 is used by the USAF as a high speed interceptor, but is also their premier air to air fighter. J-20 will be the same, albeit with greater rang and endurance most like.

My only answer to those who reasons J-20 is an interceptor because of its size, "Consider the F-15, Su-27 family"

Big airframe, long legs =/= it can't be air superiority or meant for lean and mean dogfight. And again, F-15 as example.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Eurgh.

J-20 is a relatively large airframe, yes, at 20.5m, but far from Mig-31's 22.7m. So yes it can mount powerful EW, passive sensors, and a massive whopping radar along with a good A2A load.
But it ain't an interceptor. It's an air superiority fighter with long legs. If it were a pure bred interceptor (and let's be honest -- no one has built such a type in many years) it would not have LERX, and certainly not canards, all features indicative of an agile air to air fighter.

These days, most new fighters are very capable interceptors. But interceptors do not make good fighters.

F-22 is used by the USAF as a high speed interceptor, but is also their premier air to air fighter. J-20 will be the same, albeit with greater rang and endurance most like.

Very astute observation here my friend, large birds with long legs and agility, define the 4.5+ modern fighter, all new fighters are designed to be BVR, "Snipers", taking out the enemy, without exposing themselves nor their position, but most snipers carry a big honkin fighting knife, just in case..... So whether 4.5 or 5 gen, everyone realizes you may have to fight your way out, even if you were very stealthy on the way in, so this argument is moot, unless we are talking about the J-20 fighting the J-10, that should be interesting. These days, most new fighters are very capable interceptors, and this statement wraps up the whole semantics argument, very well stated. Brat

 

[siegecrossbow]

Another issue I find with the MIG-31/25 comparison is that the aforementioned aircraft incorporated a significant amount of steel in their designs. I very much doubt that J-20 used anything other than titanium, aluminum, and composite materials (around 30%, as a matter of fact).

Also keep in mind that the J-20 will likely incorporated components fashioned using 3D laser printing, which in and of itself enhances strength while decreasing weight, in the near future.

 

[leibowitz]

Very astute observation here my friend, large birds with long legs and agility, define the 4.5+ modern fighter, all new fighters are designed to be BVR, "Snipers", taking out the enemy, without exposing themselves nor their position, but most snipers carry a big honkin fighting knife, just in case..... So whether 4.5 or 5 gen, everyone realizes you may have to fight your way out, even if you were very stealthy on the way in, so this argument is moot, unless we are talking about the J-20 fighting the J-10, that should be interesting. These days, most new fighters are very capable interceptors, and this statement wraps up the whole semantics argument, very well stated. Brat

Quite true. The real limiter here will be whether China can get an engine in the 140kn, 10:1 TW class like the F135.

 

[leibowitz]

Another issue I find with the MIG-31/25 comparison is that the aforementioned aircraft incorporated a significant amount of steel in their designs. I very much doubt that J-20 used anything other than titanium, aluminum, and composite materials (around 30%, as a matter of fact).

Also keep in mind that the J-20 will likely incorporated components fashioned using 3D laser printing, which in and of itself enhances strength while decreasing weight, in the near future.

Yep, true.

 

[Broccoli]

MiG 1.44 has similar layout and it was designed to be multirole fighter.

 

[Quickie]

The Typhoon also has similar configuration. It has twin underfuselage intakes similar to the Mig 1.44. Double the vertical stabilizer of the Typhoon and adjust the position of its canards and bingo you got the Mig 1.44. Or vice versa.

Whatever the case, the Mig 1.44 in its final configuration is not good enough to go into pre production.

 

[Deino]

Regarding the so often mentioned engine-issue/-question - as again in the Su-35-tread - I did this one ...

Whatever the engines of the Chengdu J-20 is, it is NOT the AL-31FN. The exhaust of the afterburner of the AL-31FN is red and that of the Chengdu J-20 is blue.

As far on what I read, what I learned from different sources (including Russian ones) and after some loooong observations and even more discussion with friend I came to the conclusion ... it IS the AL-31FN !!!

 

[siegecrossbow]

MiG 1.44 has similar layout and it was designed to be multirole fighter.

My point exactly! MIG-1.44 has a similar size and build to the J-20 and also employs a canard configuration. It also has internal weapons bay in the belly. Yet you don't hear the "experts" calling the MIG-1.44 a fighter bomber of pure interceptor (even those why say that the J-20 is a MIG-1.44)!

Those so-called experts also screw themselves up with their own arguments:

1. The J-20 must be a fighter-bomber. (what about the dedicated SRAAM bays and shallow main bay?)
2. That means it must be an interceptor that can't turn. However, it also employs DSI so it can't go faster than MACH 2.

You see! They don't even know what they are talking about half the time. As long as they get to bash the J-20 everything is fine with them (even if their arguments conflict with one another).

 

[kroko]

Regarding the so often mentioned engine-issue/-question - as again in the Su-35-tread - I did this one ...



As far on what I read, what I learned from different sources (including Russian ones) and after some loooong observations and even more discussion with friend I came to the conclusion ... it IS the AL-31FN !!!

Thats is what i also suspect since a long time ago.