J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[Player99]

I doubt the J-20 will ever go mach3, but merely because I don't see PLAAF needing the J-20 for that.
And I also don't think speed is limited to merely engine output as you have said, mig. What happened to drag and altitude? Nobody care about those anymore?

So do I (doubt that the J-20 will ever go mack 3). To me, even if the rumor was true that the aircraft passed the wind tunnel test at mach 3, it doesn't mean it can or will fly at that speed. People do a lot of tests on aircraft just to push it to the extremes.

P.S. I just turned the page again!

 

[MiG-29]

Do you have to feel and sound so patronizing, hence annoying? Let me put it clearly now: I understand what DSI means and its limitations you repeated ad nauseam. If you want to refute what I said, you should have proven, with some shreds of fact, that DSI definitely cannot be made adjustable without losing all the advantages, shouldn't you?

Why do you have to always believe that you are smarter than anyone or someone here, let alone the real experts at CAC? Is that an IQ thing or an EQ thing with this peculiar personality trait of yours?

you are taking everything wrong, i have read first how intakes work, why? well simple if i am going to opine i have to do it well informed, second the DSI patent that you can easily get only either for JF-17 or the original one by the american inventors say it is fixed.

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the difference is you are saying perhaps not with facts but with rumours or speculation which is fine as long as you can add it is not a fact, here people from speculation make myths.

So is not that i am boasting, but simply i base my opinion on more credible facts rather in speculation i said find a patent of a VG DSI intake, but as long as you do not have it it is just an urban legend on the internet that J-20 has a variable geometry intake that allows it to fly at mach 2.5 or something like that.

The more logic speed is Mach 1.8 or at the mach 2 as this Russian webpage has which is a very good website
Тяга, кгс 2 х 14470
Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00

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[Skywatcher]

you are taking everything wrong, i have read first how intakes work, why? well simple if i am going to opine i have to do it well informed, second the DSI patent that you can easily get only either for JF-17 or the original one by the american inventors say it is fixed.

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the difference is you are saying perhaps not with facts but with rumours or speculation which is fine as long as you can add it is not a fact, here people from speculation make myths.

So is not that i am boasting, but simply i base my opinion on more credible facts rather in speculation i said find a patent of a VG DSI intake, but as long as you do not have it it is just an urban legend on the internet that J-20 has a variable geometry intake that allows it to fly at mach 2.5 or something like that.

The more logic speed is Mach 1.8 or at the mach 2 as this Russian webpage has which is a very good website
Тяга, кгс 2 х 14470
Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00

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Just because you have a patent doesn't mean the technology will work.

And what does that website say? I believe the SDF rules state you're supposed to post in English, or at least provide a translation there of.

 

[Skywatcher]

DSI can get you to Mach 2, true but the matter is the engine, PAKFA can get up to Mach 3 theoretically, but it won`t go more than Mach 2.5 in real life.

The engine life is what limits the speed, at speeds of Mach 2 the DSI on F-16 or J-10B will have lower pressure recovery and thus efficiency.

a Mach 1.8 is the realistic speed for a DSI equipped J-10 and a J-20.

Make your mind up, you say both Mach 2.0 and 1.8 (what restricts the J-20 to Mach 1.8, assuming that you're right about DSI, just because the J-10 might do it? Did some Russian official tell you that?)

I'll take that as a concession though on your bs Mach 1.8 claim.

 

[Player99]

you are taking everything wrong, i have read first how intakes work, why? well simple if i am going to opine i have to do it well informed, second the DSI patent that you can easily get only either for JF-17 or the original one by the american inventors say it is fixed.

the difference is you are saying perhaps not with facts but with rumours or speculation which is fine as long as you can add it is not a fact, here people from speculation make myths.

So is not that i am boasting, but simply i base my opinion on more credible facts rather in speculation i said find a patent of a VG DSI intake, but as long as you do not have it it is just an urban legend on the internet that J-20 has a variable geometry intake that allows it to fly at mach 2.5 or something like that.

It is you who took it wrong from the very beginning. I made it very clear that I read about the rumor that you believe it or not at your own risk. Does that sound like I was dead serious in selling my knowledge? And you somehow got all fired up as if someone was begging for your profound knowledge to prove or disprove anything. What's worse is the way you say things. And you don't sound like boasting, you sound like jumping in conclusion, judging, and blindly lecturing, and doing so often without much success in convincing and in not realizing that you are not good at convincing but very good at annoying and irritating...

 

[latenlazy]

you are taking everything wrong, i have read first how intakes work, why? well simple if i am going to opine i have to do it well informed, second the DSI patent that you can easily get only either for JF-17 or the original one by the american inventors say it is fixed.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the difference is you are saying perhaps not with facts but with rumours or speculation which is fine as long as you can add it is not a fact, here people from speculation make myths.

So is not that i am boasting, but simply i base my opinion on more credible facts rather in speculation i said find a patent of a VG DSI intake, but as long as you do not have it it is just an urban legend on the internet that J-20 has a variable geometry intake that allows it to fly at mach 2.5 or something like that.

The more logic speed is Mach 1.8 or at the mach 2 as this Russian webpage has which is a very good website
Тяга, кгс 2 х 14470
Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00

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Reading and understanding are two very different things.

 

[Engineer]

you are taking everything wrong, i have read first how intakes work, why? well simple if i am going to opine i have to do it well informed, second the DSI patent that you can easily get only either for JF-17 or the original one by the american inventors say it is fixed.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the difference is you are saying perhaps not with facts but with rumours or speculation which is fine as long as you can add it is not a fact, here people from speculation make myths.

So is not that i am boasting, but simply i base my opinion on more credible facts rather in speculation i said find a patent of a VG DSI intake, but as long as you do not have it it is just an urban legend on the internet that J-20 has a variable geometry intake that allows it to fly at mach 2.5 or something like that.

The more logic speed is Mach 1.8 or at the mach 2 as this Russian webpage has which is a very good website
Тяга, кгс 2 х 14470
Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You are hardly qualified to lecture others about the use of credible facts, since your own claim about fixed inlet having a speed limit at Mach 1.8 is a myth and not a fact. Revising your estimation from Mach 1.8 to Mach 2.0 doesn't make your claim any less of a myth, since it is debunked with F-22's quoted maximum speed being above Mach 2.0 using fixed inlet.

When we examine the

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which you have posted, we see it claims no moving parts are required. However, that is notably different to claiming no moving parts being a requirement and contrary to an opinion which you are trying to push. In other words, the patent does not preclude J-20 to have a movable bypass door somewhere to regulate the mass flow at high velocity.

 

[MiG-29]

Just because you have a patent doesn't mean the technology will work.

And what does that website say? I believe the SDF rules state you're supposed to post in English, or at least provide a translation there of.

the translation was provided since the webpage quoted important fact says

Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00 which means max speed Mach 2, the webpage says J-20 max speed is Mach 2

 

[MiG-29]

It is you who took it wrong from the very beginning. I made it very clear that I read about the rumor that you believe it or not at your own risk. Does that sound like I was dead serious in selling my knowledge? And you somehow got all fired up as if someone was begging for your profound knowledge to prove or disprove anything. What's worse is the way you say things. And you don't sound like boasting, you sound like jumping in conclusion, judging, and blindly lecturing, and doing so often without much success in convincing and in not realizing that you are not good at convincing but very good at annoying and irritating...

Look this is not about me or you as you are trying to portrait, in order to justify your lack of supporting evidence, but this is about the feasability the J-20 with a DSI can reach Mach 2.5 or more, the original patent by the DSI inventors say it is fixed, there have been test of DSI at Mach 3 or more, i do not deny it

A diverterless hypersonic inlet (DHI) ..... The DHI is optimized for a particular design flight Mach number

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however you have to see what means optimized for a mach design number.


it means it only works for a specific speed and ramjets use a rocket booster to achieve hypersonic speeds.

the X-51A safely separated from the B-52 and the rocket booster fired as planned.

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Since J-20 does not use ramjet or scramjet technology and needs to fly from 0 to mach 2 whith a fixed intake the throat of the DSI on J-20 also is optimized from Mach 1 to Mach 2.

And that is the reality, J-20 is a Mach 2 aircraft at the most and very likely is a Mach 1.8 as an ideal intake

in fact the DSI is not for mixed compression but for external compression


the DSI is an external compression inlet concept in which the external compression surface is developed by streamline tracing from a simple conical flow field generator

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Any way let us cut it here, i will give you a last reply and let us move on.

 

[Engineer]

the translation was provided since the webpage quoted important fact says

Максимальная скорость , км/ч М=2.00 which means max speed Mach 2, the webpage says J-20 max speed is Mach 2

Actually, the web page does not contain facts. Instead, it is full of fantasies. Russian fantasies. A glance through the article quickly reveals it to be merely an opinion piece with clear bitterness over J-20's success. The page has an extremely low standard that makes Wikipedia's J-20 page look like a piece of professional aviation article. Here are a couple of highlights:

Chengdu J-20 (J-XX) представляет собой большой (длина 21-23м)

We know this claim to be false since J-20 has a length of approximately 20m, shorter than a Flanker and has a lower wingspan in comparison.

и тяжелый (взлетный вес 35-40 тонн)

Calling the aircraft heavy and claiming a weight of 30-40 tons are complete speculation.

Пока не слышно и не видно никаких реальных достижений в области создания радиолокационных станций достойного уровня, с активными фазированными антенными решетками. Определенное сотрудничество с российскими разработчиками в этой области велось несколько лет назад, но затем, похоже, было свернуто. Ведь России невыгодно помогать создавать радар для конкурента своему истребителю поколения 4++ Су-35, который надеются продать и в Китай.

The author of the page seems to think China has no AESA radar and would be totally dependent on Russia. He is completely oblivious to the fact that China is ahead of Russia in avionics with multiple airborne AESA radar already flying.

Но самое страшное для китайцев - не в этом. Для самолета нет своих двигателей. Перспективный двигатель 5-го поколения WS-15 существует лишь в мечтах и далеких планах. Имеющийся собственный двигатель 4-го поколения WS-10A неработоспособен. Он обладает отвратительной динамикой и низкой устойчивостью на разных режимах работы, что необходимо истребителю. И он имеет околонулевой ресурс - 25-40 часов, вместо требуемых 400-800 часов.

This is a short extract of a much longer paragraph with typical myths about Chinese made engines. Among the claims is "WS-10A is not operational", which we know to be false. Another claim is that WS-10A has only a life of 25-40 hours, which we know to be impossible based on how many aircraft are flying with the engine and how many engines is actually produced each year.

LMAO! The article doesn't tell me anything about J-20 beyond the external appearance. What the article does tell me is that there is nothing on PAKFA that Russian fan boys can be proud of, since all they can do is put down J-20 (and F-35) in an attempt to make PAKFA looks better.