J-15 carrier fighter thread

[gelgoog]

Typically a CATOBAR compliant aircraft is heavier than a STOBAR aircraft. Although this might be mitigated with EMALS. When you design an aircraft for a steam catapult, the airframe needs to be strengthened, not just the landing gear, to support the stresses of catapult launch. If they go for a common aircraft for both carrier types I think they will need a higher power engine unless they can cut down the weight elsewhere to compensate.

 

[Blitzo]

Typically a CATOBAR compliant aircraft is heavier than a STOBAR aircraft. Although this might be mitigated with EMALS. When you design an aircraft for a steam catapult, the airframe needs to be strengthened, not just the landing gear, to support the stresses of catapult launch. If they go for a common aircraft for both carrier types I think they will need a higher power engine unless they can cut down the weight elsewhere to compensate.

The forces that act on a CATOBAR aircraft certainly will certainly necessitate additional strengthening compared to a STOBAR aircraft, however I don't think there are any indications as to how much heavier such strengthening would be.
I.e.: is it a few hundred kg or is it more like a couple of tons or somewhere in between. I haven't read anything in the public space about anything that specific.



Depending on how much heavier a CATOBAR compatible aircraft would be vs a STOBAR aircraft, it could possibly make sense to build separate variants to enable greater performance for the STOBAR variant. However that ultimately depends on just how much more heavy it is (aka how much of a performance penalty it will cause for the STOBAR variant) versus the various benefits that having a common airframe that can crossdeck CATOBAR and STOBAR carriers will bring.

 

[Deino]

Courtesy of @huitong:

This photo shows two freshly-built J-15 airframes which are suspected to be of the J-15B variant. These cannot be of the J-15T iteration since the "T" prototype only a technology demonstrator. However, pb19980515 has mentioned that the J-15B would be CATOBAR-compatible as well.

Huitong's original text:

Rough summary:

• CCTV reported that a naval aviation unit has conducted day-and-night combat training
• A video still shows the J-15A taking off with two unpainted J-15s in the background
• It is suspected & hypothesized that they could be the J-15B (note to Huitong: they are not likely to be J-15Ts since the J-15T isn't a production model)
• It is expected that the J-15B will be transferred from a land-based training to the CV-16 later this year in preparation for combat duties aboard the Type 002

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View attachment 50707

One of the aircraft (the one huitong chose to mark as "J-15T") has a position marker on its tail, meaning it could certainly be the old "J-15T" tech demo for catapults, but the picture isn't very clear for us to be able to ID a catapult bar on the nosegear (for either of the two aircraft).

On the other hand, we know older J-15 prototypes also had position markers on their tail, so it's possible it could merely be an older J-15 prototype (though unlikely).

It is also possible that both aircraft are actually of the same type, i.e.: the "J-15B". The aircraft with the position marker is currently conducting certain tests where those markers are needed and the other aircraft is conducting other tests where they are not. Unfortunately we are unable to identify nosegear again to tell if either of them have a catapult bar.

I must admit, I'm a sceptical, at least from this image: what makes him to assume these are a J-15B and J-15T?
Maybe I miss a certain detail - at least I cannot spot the catapult bar and the new radar is covered - but isn't it much more likely that these two are just ordinary prototypes at Huangdicun? Also, do we have any reports about a restarted production of J-15s of any kind at SAC??

My point is, that the sole J-15T prototype is known already in grey with the number 571 and that there are still several regular yellow one even with calibration markings still flying at Huangdicun. So until we have no better clearer images I think they are more likely ordinary prototypes.

 

[SinoSoldier]

I must admit, I'm a sceptical, at least from this image: what makes him to assume these are a J-15B and J-15T?
Maybe I miss a certain detail - at least I cannot spot the catapult bar and the new radar is covered - but isn't it much more likely that these two are just ordinary prototypes at Huangdicun? Also, do we have any reports about a restarted production of J-15s of any kind at SAC??

My point is, that the sole J-15T prototype is known already in grey with the number 571 and that there are still several regular yellow one even with calibration markings still flying at Huangdicun. So until we have no better clearer images I think they are more likely ordinary prototypes.

What do you mean several yellow ones? We haven't seen the original unpainted prototypes for years and I don't think they'll be showing up all of sudden at a training base.

 

[Deino]

What do you mean several yellow ones? We haven't seen the original unpainted prototypes for years and I don't think they'll be showing up all of sudden at a training base.

Really? I just have no time to check but I think I remember several images showing the hangars at Hunagdicun from a video report and there were standing besides the regular J-15s also a few yellow older ones.

 

[Deino]

Upps ... here it is; albeit indeed from August 2015.

Anyway my point is: is it more likely that there are still prototypes at Hunagdicun even if we haven't seen them since August 2015 or that these are indeed factory fresh rumoured J-15Bs regardless that really no specific detail gives any hint to it or even more likely explanations can be found?

So again:

- AFAIK we have no reports from SAC that production of any J-15 variant started
- we have seen several yellow painted regular J-15s at Huangdicun (agreed at least earlier)
- at least from this grainy image no certain details for the catapult bar are visible

 

[asif iqbal]

so what are we saying, J15B is started production ?

 

[SinoSoldier]

Upps ... here it is; albeit indeed from August 2015.

Anyway my point is: is it more likely that there are still prototypes at Hunagdicun even if we haven't seen them since August 2015 or that these are indeed factory fresh rumoured J-15Bs regardless that really no specific detail gives any hint to it or even more likely explanations can be found?

So again:

- AFAIK we have no reports from SAC that production of any J-15 variant started
- we have seen several yellow painted regular J-15s at Huangdicun (agreed at least earlier)
- at least from this grainy image no certain details for the catapult bar are visible


View attachment 50710

Would the yellow J-15s still be in testing at this point? I agree that it is too early to say that these are indeed new J-15s or old ones, but considering how the Type 002/3 are shaping up and that these jets appeared at a training base, it is more likely than not that these airframes are a new variant or at least a new production batch.

 

[huitong]

Hey guys sorry for the late reply. I spent some time checking the satellite imagery at both SAC and Xing Cheng and found almost no activities last year in terms of production and testing of the new batch of J-15B for Type 002 CV at SAC. In addition the two yellow J-15s at Xing Cheng Base appear to have been parked at the same spot next to the ski jump since last October. Therefore now I tend to agree with Deino that those two are not newly constructed J-15s, but rather the old yellow 552 and 553 prototypes. However this does bring out a very interesting question: with 002 on sea trail and to enter the initial service as early as next year, where are newly built J-15Bs dedicated to 002? The answer is likely none. So in order to keep both 001 and 002 operational, PLAN will have to split the existing 24 J-15As between the two CVS as a stopgap solution, that could have a significant impact on both CVs to achieve FOC. In addition, as we know J-15A is already obsolete. It is only comparable to F/A-18C and no match to F/A-18E (forget about F-35). So this brings out another interesting question: without additional J-15B, what is SAC/PLAN’s plan for 001/002 in the future? Are they just waiting for the next generation stealthy J-35 which will take 5+ years to enter the service? While waiting, are they going to update the existing J-15A to the B standard which will at least feature an AESA radar+enhanced precision strike capability, in order to deal with the threat from F/A-18E? Finally the question remiains: what is the future of J-15T project? Will it enter the limited production for 003, or just remain as a technology demonstrator? The prospect of PLAN carrier-borne fighter in the next 5-6 years suddenly becomes complicated and less clear. SAC might have been forced to abandon the J-15B development plan when PLAN decided to jump directly to the stealthy J-35 between 2017 and 2018. Anyway I am still searching for the answers.

 

[Deino]

Hey guys sorry for the late reply. I spent some time checking the satellite imagery at both SAC and Xing Cheng and found almost no activities last year in terms of production and testing of the new batch of J-15B for Type 002 CV at SAC. In addition the two yellow J-15s at Xing Cheng Base appear to have been parked at the same spot next to the ski jump since last October. Therefore now I tend to agree with Deino that those two are not newly constructed J-15s, but rather the old yellow 552 and 553 prototypes. However this does bring out a very interesting question: with 002 on sea trail and to enter the initial service as early as next year, where are newly built J-15Bs dedicated to 002? The answer is likely none. So in order to keep both 001 and 002 operational, PLAN will have to split the existing 24 J-15As between the two CVS as a stopgap solution, that could have a significant impact on both CVs to achieve FOC. In addition, as we know J-15A is already obsolete. It is only comparable to F/A-18C and no match to F/A-18E (forget about F-35). So this brings out another interesting question: without additional J-15B, what is SAC/PLAN’s plan for 001/002 in the future? Are they just waiting for the next generation stealthy J-35 which will take 5+ years to enter the service? While waiting, are they going to update the existing J-15A to the B standard which will at least feature an AESA radar+enhanced precision strike capability, in order to deal with the threat from F/A-18E? Finally the question remiains: what is the future of J-15T project? Will it enter the limited production for 003, or just remain as a technology demonstrator? The prospect of PLAN carrier-borne fighter in the next 5-6 years suddenly becomes complicated and less clear. SAC might have been forced to abandon the J-15B development plan when PLAN decided to jump directly to the stealthy J-35 between 2017 and 2018. Anyway I am still searching for the answers.

Thanks a lot, highly appreciated.